Jasper2009

Only that covering the travel expenses for someone whom the company has a business relationship with would never be considered as a gift. But nice try.

Would you care to elaborate (either here or via PM) since I´m honestly not aware of any such incidents?

nsx

If a problem existed, as it has in the past for Congress, something like the rules Congress follows (see Section I.A) would be appropriate. What I described (a company paying ordinary travel expenses only) fits comfortably within those rules.

Creating an official rule would leave the incorrect impression that, as with Congress, the rule was prompted by abuse. There is no abuse, and I don't see how any abuse would even be possible. Show me a plausible scenario for abuse and maybe I'll change my mind.

Jasper2009

@84fiero: You make some good points and many mods will agree with at least some of your arguments.

Mods rarely "present members' opinions" - some companies have their official lurkers monitor the threads and provide a summary to management on a regular basis, afaik mods are rarely involved in any such dealings.

While some mods only enforce the TOS in their forum, others make an effort to make the forum a more useful place, e.g. by creating wikis, writing master FAQ threads and trying to bring an official lurker onboard. This indeed is not part of the "official job description", but I can´t imagine many FTers think this is a bad thing. Meetings between mods and company reps typically focus on "What can/should the official lurkers do/not do?" and discussing how to improve the interaction being FTers and the company.

I think you´re over-estimating the power mods have. Mods can´t just randomly delete threads and ban members. And even if it happened, there´s a formal complaint process.

I don´t necessarily disagree, but IMO it´s not really an issue. Sure, one could disclose "mod xyz was invited to HQ to discuss what the official lurkers can do and the company covered the costs of transportation", but it´s not as if various companies were giving mods free vacations (which indeed would be questionable conduct IMO) etc.

My opinion is that the whole idea of implementing guidelines is somewhat unnecessary since there´s no issue to "fix". If you´re aware of specific mods receiving free trips/miles/points I´m happy to re-evaluate my standpoint.

Jasper2009

Correct me if I´m wrong, but I thought Oliver2002 didn´t even attend the event. Suggesting that a mod who wasn´t even present failed to ask the right questions certainly is .... interesting.

nsx

I have done so on a couple occasions, generally preceded by an open thread soliciting questions from members. In one case the company asked for website gripes and I re-read the forum to collect observations that members had posted. It's nothing the company people couldn't have done themselves, but their available time was limited. The website gripes meeting was by phone, FWIW.

eightblack

There is. Its called the Moderator Good Practices document, which every Mod must abide by.

I think people are becoming a little sanctimonious regarding Mod compensation. Do people pay to join FT? No. It's a free "membership" site, moderated by volunteers who hopefully for the most part, take an active interest in the role they play. Mods are hardly it in for the compensation and the whole conspiracy theory is starting to get boring.

I already have a job. I dont need another one. I participate in FT because its a hobby and I would like to think the hours I contribute far outweigh whatever benefits I have ever received.

kokonutz

Thanks for being so forthcoming.

As usual. ^And, in fairness, that document is completely 100% secret. By design. So that posters can not and will not attempt to hold mods accountable to it.

That all said, we've gotten a bit afield from the subject of this thread.

Maybe some work on the wiki is in order!

cblaisd

And, in accuracy, that is not true. Every moderator knows it and has agreed to abide by it.

Ah, I see your confusion. You may be thinking of the Community Director, SanDiego1K; it is her job to hold moderators accountable, and she does great at it.

kokonutz

No confusion whatsoever: I have been told directly that the reason that the Mod BP Guide is kept secret among the mods is so that posters aren't tempted to try to hold mods accountable to it.

tcook052

On that we can agree. ^

skywalkerLAX

I refer to the comment of 'calling a spade a spade'.

All of the responses and publications were a press release, could have come from the corporate communications office without anyone attending any meeting.

skywalkerLAX

Huh?

If you are not on official business (contributing to your job) and company x pays you hotel and airline tickets then this is indeed very questionable.

Show me one compliance officer who testifies that this conduct is acceptable.

nsx

Correct. But no airline or hotel chain would pay travel expenses for an FTer who is not going to contribute more value to FT as a result of attending the meeting. There's value in the meeting to the company and value to FT. If it were a one-sided gift to the FT member it would be improper on the part of the recipient and pointlessly wasteful on the part of the donor company. Such situations simply don't happen.

FT benefits when any FT member meets with airline or hotel company executives. Information and insight are gained by both parties. It's a win-win.

skywalkerLAX

I don't think it's that easy but let's be honest, Flyertalk itself is not really of much use to whatever company so that single moderators would need to be secretly or even semi-openly invited for feedback meetings on the FT progress itself.

I was more talking about the general corporate governance aspect of it from a compliance standard and the associated guidelines most big corporations have.

And I would never say "Such situations simply don't happen" about anything.

SMK77

You might be not up to date on Compliance matters, but a business relationship in many cases would definitely not allow for accepting reimbursement of travel cost. A third party provider who wants to sell your company something is offering you a First Class trip to their headquarters to discuss the proposal: Would you think it's appropriate to accept the 'invite' (read: gift)?

Same goes for moderators constantly lobbying for a certain airline or discussing internal FT matters with senior executives: they don't even have a business relationship and should not feel 'entitled' to free transportation because they are spending so much time for FT and the community.

I have shared my concerns with your Community Director in charge and I left it up to her good judgement how she wants to handle my input.