Pretty stupid email, if you ask me. When it comes to miles-earning credit cards the email writer is clearly talking about things he knows little about (as he admits himself), and ultimately United's responsible for how many miles it sells to credit card companies and how much it charges those companies for each mile.

Similar sentiments have shown up elsewhere, not just with this UA issue. I find it silly though... a few random thoughts on it:

- Does any airline, especially U.S. carriers, really care who is in their F seats? I know some pax, including some FT'ers think F should be the domain of only those with enough class or whatever. I doubt the airlines do.

- The airlines certainly like to market and brag about their premium products. I don't know why it's inherently bad that blogs do as well.

- Some writers such as the email koko received above act as if the airline is continually forced to hand over free seats at ridiculously low saver levels to everyone who wants them, thanks to so many miles having been issued. However the airline controls the amount of such seats made available - and presumably isn't making more available than its rev mgmt determines it makes sense to do. That process doesn't change, regardless of how many outstanding miles exist. Sure, they may end up having more people ultimately redeem for those seats than might have if fewer people had fewer miles...but it's not quite the dynamic that some folks portray it to be.

Sometimes they do, now that i think about it. look at aeroplan. I'm pretty sure that deval was NOT as a result of the lboggers.

"some" - obviously yes, but if you want to blame people, technically airlines sell to credit card companies and credit card companies pay for signups

Some insight on the topic: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/miles...l#post21731400

Basically LH is OK with people using loopholes, but when it gets viral they tend to close the gap pdq.

Miles are everywhere, and easy to get.

Only a matter of time, till they were devalued.

Income is the same way, we have people on welfare, living like millionaire's

Most of us have far more miles than we need, so we give them away,

Not sure the analogy works. I think welfare people are living far above their means, is enabled by mis-using credit and debt. Besides welfare is "re-distributing the wealth", not printing more money;)

I sure don't have enough miles to give away...but if you're looking for a gift recipient I'd be happy to take some off your hands!

miles are only EASY/cheap to get if you have a greencard/ssn...

Fascinating. So bloggers do bear some responsibility for at least closing loopholes.

Of course, so does FlyerTalk. But bloggers do like to brag that they reach the masses, not just the points nerds...

A couple of points to consider about the current situation (I apologize for the length:)

1. The two major sponsors of FF programs in the US--banks and airlines--have only recently emerged from extremely dicey times that had the effect of flooding the market with miles. With the exception of SW, every major US airline went through at least one bankruptcy in the 2000's. Before going to BK, most survived by raising cash through massive sales of miles and other considerations to the banks. (AA was most notable--in its prolonged effort to avoid BK, it sold hundreds of millions of miles to Citi for a song in order to raise cash and stay out of BK. All those 75k & 100k signup bonuses!)

2. The Great Recession turned the credit card industry upside down, and provided Chase with an enormous opportunity to gain market share. MBNA/BofA nearly disappeared from the CC market, where just a few years earlier they were a top affiliate card issuer. Citi was crippled (all it had were those cheap AA miles!). Amex was severely hurt. Chase was damaged far less, and used its relative strength to go after market share in the CC space, targeting the high end market that AMEX had ruled, and MBNA/BofA had done well in. They significantly increased their affiliate card program in the T&E space, and created UR. They gorged on miles and points at rock bottom prices and dished them out like candy to lure customers to their cards. Providing generous referral fees to bloggers was merely one part of the strategy.

3. In the US, mergers have created an air travel market that is monopolistic. Furthermore, there are far more barriers to entry for new competitors today than there were in the early years of deregulation. With fewer competitors, and the threat of new competitors largely eliminated, the airlines don't need to rely as much on frequent flyer programs to gain advantage.

4. At this point in time, supply of seats is down while demand is up. On the one hand, the economy has stabilized and gotten marginally better overall (and much better in some markets.) There's more demand for seats. On the other hand, airline mergers in the US have significantly reduced the supply of seats. We've all experience the resulting airfare increases and packed flights.

I think that these factors are whats behind the proliferation of bloggers, miles inflation, and the FF program devaluations. The recent award chart adjustments are just the latest in the devaluation cycle that has been going on since the airlines monopoly has taken hold, and the economy has improved. Consider how much more difficult its been over the last 2 years to cash in those miles for seats! Consider the dwindling number of massive sign up bonuses.

Even if the bloggers were to disappear tomorrow, its hard to see how devaluation would not continue, given the above. I suspect that the airlines will continue to sell cheap miles to the banks--although not as cheap as previously. The airline monopoly in the US is now a fact. If the good ol days of our game are to ever return, it'll probably be because of another major economic turndown, or a miraculous act of congress that would allow more competition from foreign carriers on US soil.

I do sympathize with you and the rest of our cousins up north and across the pond...not as easy to come by for sure.

excellent analysis.

as some of my twitter friends say, you give some you get some. i get free healthcare instead of signup bonuses.... i am so envious of the dual canadian/us citizen lol

Hey we have 404Care now!:rolleyes::(

rofl!

I wrote about this recently on my blog... in my view easy manufactured spend, taken to the extreme by FTers and people like myself, are more responsible for devaluations than newbies loading up on credit card sign ups. If I can spend $14k in less than an hour, repeatable ad nauseum, and others call me out for saying that's peanuts, then that is your problem.

Oh and Koko, nice try with your very political "are external miles and points resources..." - why not just come out with it and say "are blogs killing our miles"? Man must be something in the air in Washington DC :) (Still you got my TB vote on the basis you want to remove moderation from this place)

Well I FEEL like they might be. But I get accused of being 'anti-blogger'* quite a bit. So thought I would do the 'iron fist in the velvet glove' bit. :D



*I am actually quite pro-blogger! In fact, Seth just taught me how to find my EQD on smisek dot bomb!

The words "travel hacking" give a totally horrid connotation to what it is many of us do for and with miles/points.

When I see the word hacker I think of some Iranian IT guy with a machine gun over his shoulder and the Social Secuity website up on his screen, and then the scene cuts to some old couple in Michigan who just lost everything.

Any way youd be willing to edit out the word for ANYTHING else?

Sounds like it is time for you to update your world views. :rolleyes:

Seriously though, what springs to mind when you hear the term?

You are right.
Sorry.

The Iranian hacker would br using an iPad Air not a desktop computer.

How mid 2000s of me!

Do points and miles resources bear some responsibility for point devaluations?
 

I hate the usage of the word "Wxxre". Like mileage whxxe or starbucks whxrx etc etc

Hacker reminds me a horror movie or that scene in the movie Fargo. Actually that was more like chopping...:eek:

Yes! haha

Well, I hate when you put on a kid's show like, say, Curious George on ON DEMAND Comcast Cable or something, and the kiddos are watching, and then when it's over, you happen to be coming out of the bathroom but the movie guide thing comes up when the show ends--you know, the screen with the gal yapping about what the top 5 new releases are--and there's a small screen in the corner that shows clips from the new releases and it's like SAW III or something or some new mafia movie where someone is getting the crap beaten out of them. Then my kids get to watch that as I fumble to find the clicker and change it. You are pulling your pants up like George Costanza had tried to in that Seinfeld episode where he was trying to tell the unemployment office he was a latex salesman as you rush to fix the breach.

:D:D

Buttttt to stay back on topic, I would rather be called things like:

Travel (or miles) enthusiast
entrepreneur
(if a blogger, then instead call it a "writer")
miles monger
promotions specialist
heck, even a points HOUND!
and so forth.

But definitely NOT a "gamer" or a "hacker" or a "scammer"

That is unless there's something wrong with things like MS and something illegal is being done by those in this forum.

I don't like "hacking/hacker" because it makes me picture hacking up phlegm or something gross!:D

Well after going to many area CVSs and Walmarts all day to MS you kinda feel sick anyway but yeah, there's that too.

here are some terms I have batted around... this end of the discussion has definitely been had before in FT...



~travel technician
~travel alchemist
~promotions guru
~travel gandalf
~promotions ninja - promo ninja or P Ninja (my favorite because a ninja has to be stealth, deadly and often working defensively as well as offensively but with style) We deal in knowing how to work within promos like airline or cc offers or store deals.

A hacker by definition finds a way to create or breach a back door to wreck things. What many MSers do, by contrast, is to work with the doors that exist... many just not known by others unless you think outside the box.

MM, in my mind MS means multiple sclerosis. I think you may want to find a different acronym...@:-)

Yes :Dwell that you may wish to take up with every other MSer out there for I didn't invent the term.

I guess it comes from a woman who lived some years ago named Emily Esse or Em S.