GUWonder

The success of a business is commonly measured in how much money it earns. Blogs included as possibly a business of sort.

Divorce rates for people who retire with a few million dollars is higher than divorce rates for people struggling financially? I thought lack of money and different spending priorities was supposedly one of the biggest sources of conflicts for couples; having more than enough money should reduce the source of that being the primary source of a conflict leading to divorce.

I'm not even sure that divorce rates are higher amongst very frequent flyers in the US than the rates are for those who fly 0-1 times a year on average. It seems
to be the opposite of that when I look at the people whom I've personally known.

Adam1222

Sure, success of a business can be measured in money. (But certainly not *only* in that.) But people in this thread are going further and saying that their credit card sales businesses have led to better lives for the individual marketers. How do you measure that? Measure your life in love? Some might say being retired and wealthy but say, having compulsive needs to attack critics of blogs is not a particularly enchanting life. And we've been down this path before, but a life as a vagabond in luxury hotels, where you're afraid to be in a hotel room alone, isn't desirable for most people over 30.

but the point of this thread is the business model. The business model continues to be inherently predatory, lacking any ethical or moral codes, long term destructive to the miles and points hobby, and detrimental to the flyertalk community by giving terrible, self-interested "advice" and driving "noobs" here when they have maxed out their credit yet can't find 4 first class tickets to Europe in the summer for freeeeeee two months in advance.

Rather than hypothesizing about who is more likely to divorce, you can read the vast social science literature. A lot of lower income people are actually "too poor" to divorce. At upper incomes, there are differences based on whether a couple started rich , got rich, or one person was/got rich. The sample size noted above isn't really enough to draw any conclusions. Age, sexual orientation , and other factors play a role. (Also, some of the bloggers referenced have had long term relationships flame out in the past few years, so the fact that they "may find someone" or have been in a relationship for under 3 years really doesn't establish proof of low divorce rates.)

Blogs in general are not necessarily businesses. Blogs that are owned by credit card marketing companies are.

oliver2002

The innocent days of blogging being for some altruistic purpose are long gone. Everyone blogging today has some purpose behind it, but people are putting in some effort and taking a risk for a tangible result that makes it worth their time and effort. In my world, that is a business.

GUWonder

I'm quite familiar with the literature on divorce rates in developed countries, including of that in the US, but the divorce discussions have a better home on FT than in this thread.

The blogs we are talking about in this thread are necessarily businesses or operate in a sphere where business models are relevant; otherwise the discussion is off topic for the thread.

The compulsive criticism of bloggers as individuals are a reminder to me of the following saying: "Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." The blogs we are talking about in this thread are necessarily businesses or have a business model of sort. That the discussion about blogs in a thread devoted to the blogger business model ends up gravitating back toward the discussion of individuals as individuals speaks for itself.

gpapadop

I am shocked to read here that blogs are businesses when I always thought they are just travel hackers doing it for the love of the Hobby and spreading the love of showing friends and family how to travel for free

Imho, this is valid for any business. But blogging in our space IS different. These blogs' whole brands IS about THEM. The Points GUY! Look at the Million Mile Secrets logo (always wondered what she is doing to him!). Travel Thought LEADER. Businesses can be transparent. This blogging business about our stuff is definitely NOT!

Adam1222

I was responding to others' posts, so, nope. It's also *bloggers themselves* who are coming here and talking about themselves and how awesome *they* and their lives are. So, try again.

I wasn't the one who brought up divorce statistics. You did. If you think morality requires us not to discuss these things, you don't have to.

Several of the blogs discussed are lifestyle businesses-- selling credit cards based on the image you can have a life of luxuriant globetrotting just like them. Thus, the point that the image used for sales is a facade is indeed relevant to a discussion of the business model.

This compulsive criticism of the motivations of everyone who has critical views on this ethicless unregulated industry reminds me of the following saying: "You is kind. You is smart. You is important."

But thank you for implying I have a great mind!

ingy

I love all the talk about unethical practices.

But yet I've yet to hear about a blogger forcing an individual to push that apply button by force. Imagine a blogger standing behind a potential applicant with a gun pointed at his head and threatening him to push that "apply" button. Never has and never will happen. Applicants are personally responsible for their own actions, unless of course they need a "safe space" in order to make those decisions correctly so they can assume the responsibility for their own actions.

My memory of the hobby is telling people they:

1. Needed credit scores of 700+ to play the game
2. Always must pay their bills in full each month
3. Spread out their applications among the varies lenders.
4. Be aware that "to many recent inquiries" can lead to denials
5. Make sure you can meet the minimum spend on a timely basis

The current narrative of some sounds familiar to what we hear now on college campuses.

I must admit, George and I do agree on one thing: People in this game are NUTS and it is hilarious watching the actions and rationalizations of many.

Adam1222

Thanks for that perspective. I agree I get a chuckle watching your actions and rationalizations. I of course am talking about people who are in the business now, not what may have happened in the days of yore.

Your post takes quite a narrow view of unethical practices. Unethical practices to me include:
- blatant copying of other sources without appropriate attribution
- misleading titles for clickbait
- presenting "advice" without making clear to the reader that it is conflicted
- failing to acknowledge better deals out there
- accepting bribes, special treatment, travel, and other gifts from credit card and travel providers, and continuing to purport to cover them objectively.

Your "memory" of "the hobby" has nothing to do with this. Nor does your trotting out of the phrase safe space, which, bluntly, shows you don't know what that term actually means, but rather are just regurgitating a conservative talking point. No, I don't think kids on college campuses are the appropriate comparison, but perhaps the ERISA fiduciary rule and why it's necessary, is. No one is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to invest your retirement savings in a vehicle that helps the broker more than you as investor, either.

ingy

Just a suggestion: if your broker is making more off your money than you are, you need a new broker. Go get one

Adam1222

Thank you. I take it from your response, you are simply not aware of what the Fiduciary Rule and ensuing public discourse are about. The entire idea, of course , is that a customer has no way of knowing this barring disclosure requirements - the same goes for bloggers.

I guess you'll just have to take my word that it is a far better comparison than your non sequitur "safe space" reference.

PS- consumer protection theories are actually the product of baby boomers, not milennials. So blame your own generation.

ingy

Of course I know what the Fiduciary Rule is. Someone acting as a fiduciary must always act in his clients best interest first. Just a reminder, a blogger has in no way established or promised a fiduciary duty to his readers.

Brokers have. Mine is required by law to send me a full accounting of her charges and services and does on an annual basis. I can simply look at what she has earned and what I have earned at the end of a year and tell who made more in that time frame. Of course, she could have under the table dealings, but that of course reverts back to my responsibility of finding a broker I trust.

As far as baby boomers go, our only regret, and we talk about quite often, wondering what we did wrong as parents to have raised such entitled kids that think the world owes them something. That they need protection from the real world and everything is somebody else's fault.

My hypothesis is that when the economics demanding families move towards more two income families, the children were the big losers. Without parental supervision and discipline they became the whiners we have today.

But of course, this falls so closely with political lines now, I'd better stop with this one suggestion: Buck Up Buttercups. The world owes you nothing. You need to make your own way

flyernick

I have no doubt your fond memories are sincere and even accurate. But the key word in your post is "memory". Sort of the over-arching theme of this discussion is that things have changed, and in what accumulates to a less pleasant (to be polite) direction.

Look at the current front page for FTG. I saw articles I would classify as following: credit, aviation, credit, credit, travel, ad??, credit, travel, credit, travel, credit.

More than half the posts are really just blatant credit card pushing. While I like Caroline's articles about places she's been (e.g. Brazil today), but when I read the Allpoint article, the overall tenor of the site makes me think FTG is selling something or being paid for placement.

Now, let's look at the "memory" aspect. Pick a random time in the past. I picked Spring of 2010. You weren't trying to post 5 times a day. Yes, you presented some credit card offers that you rated as good deals, but it wasn't every other post. You talked about other things: where you were going, what reader you met, organizing meetups. You were a "guy" a person could relate to. Now it is FTGuy, Inc. It goes from a "people in the same hobby" relationship to a business-consumer one, and it just isn't as much fun being a customer. I have to be wary because I am being sold to and you may not have *my* best interests in mind. (Like grocery shopping: is this produce really a good deal today or is it nearly rotten?) And wariness increases because many/most travel blog sites do NOT make it very obvious. Yes, they have the legally required disclaimer somewhere on the site, but it often isn't clear just with a casual reading that there is commission being paid or how much.

I think that's partially why I have put up with Gpapadop's occasional whining at TBB. He still has a day job and I don't feel like just a customer.

Yes, it's a nice thing that you & Daraius & Ben,.. can make your million $. But it becomes a totally different thing when you decide the main point of the blog is to make money rather than share your ideas. The borderline "unethical" accusations come about when bloggers/companies refuse to acknowledge this fact.

BigEdInVancouver

+1

This has always bothered me about the bloggers. Most of them started off with no monetary ulterior motive and they built a rapport with their audience. They very much personalized the relationship with their readers from the get-go, with pictures of family and trip reports and the encouraging "you can do it too!" mantra. Before the bloggers, I only had flyertalk and freefrequentflyermiles.com---anyone remember that one? Same interface today!! :-)

But at some point (when the money got good), these guys all mutated to sales guys, with all the slime that you get with any sales guy. (As a longtime successful sales guy, I know firsthand better than most people. ;-) )

There are very few Travel and Point blogs out there that I would call Honorable. Any of them that is shilling/begging/lying_by_omission for money is not one of those.

Adam1222

This post actually proves you have no idea what I'm talking about with regards to the Fiduciary Rule. (Not the notion of fiduciary duty, and no, investment advisors are not currently subject to the Fiduciary duty pending ongoing litigation.) Google it.

As for the aspersions you're casting onto baby boomers, maybe you were just a bad parent. (Putting aside that true baby boomers' children aren't in college now so now you're just making stuff up to defend your attacks.) As the child of the tail end of the baby boom, and out of college 15 years, I'm making my own way quite well. I just was taught the value of looking out for other people. But if you want to equate the notion of consumer protection with millenials, contrary to fact, I guess I can't help you. I guess Elizabeth Warren and Ralph Nader are millenials now...

I take it from your lack of a response to the specific list of unethical practices I listed that you don't actually have any justification for why those aren't unethical, and are keeping to your sweeping generalizations rather than engaging in any meaningful discussion..

oliver2002

Ladies and Gentlemen, dear Kids:
lets stick to the topic, not discuss participants of the discussion. No 'me', 'you' and 'I' please.

Regards Oliver2002
Mod EM&PR forum