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Old Jul 6, 17, 1:27 pm
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For those who are interested in learning what the Fiduciary Rule is, visit http://time.com/money/4809060/fiduciary-rule-financial-advisor-what-know/

It's an Obama regulation that was based on the idea that the current disclosure regime for retirement investment advisors wasn't enough, as advisors could make recommendations that maybe weren't the best deal for the investor , but had maximum returns for the advisor. Under ERISA, a fiduciary duty would be imposed for the first time. The rule is currently on hold pending litigation, and the Trump administration continues to defend it.

The comparison to bloggers is of course obvious: bloggers make recommendations of cards without disclosing their self interest or if better deals are available.

The idea is that while you're not forcing someone to make a transaction, people are relying on the "expertise" of bloggers or financial advisors in doing so, and they shouldn't be manipulated.

Most people involved in the crafting of the Fiduciary Rule were well over 40

While there may be legitimate reasons to argue that the Fiduciary Rule or increased regulation of credit card marketing by bloggers is not wise policy, I think it's vastly clear that these policy positions are not born out of entitlement or unique to college students or mid-30s "youngsters" like myself!
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Old Jul 6, 17, 2:05 pm
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Originally Posted by ingy View Post
Just a suggestion: if your broker is making more off your money than you are, you need a new broker. Go get one
If people are unhappy with a lawful business -- such as a particular blog -- that thrives on attention, then why give it the attention that fuels its revenue? It doesn't seem to be effective, rational strategy for the critics, hypocritical or otherwise, of a business to fuel the business by giving it ever more attention.
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Old Jul 6, 17, 2:10 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
If people are unhappy with a lawful business -- such as a particular blog -- that thrives on attention, then why give it the attention that fuels its revenue? It doesn't seem to be effective, rational strategy for the critics, hypocritical or otherwise, of a business to fuel the business by giving it ever more attention.

Sure, that's one theory of economics- called the invisible hand. If one simply ignores and stays silent about businesses that have troubling practices, market forces will drive those businesses out of business.

I alas am not a Keynesian.

I have yet to see any evidence that bloggers have gotten richer off of mine or other criticism. Indeed, I have seen some slight alterations in practices that, based on timing, appear to be responsive. These blogs don't thrive from the attention on inside baseball posts like these. They thrive off of Rolling Stone articles and the false presentation that they live luxurious lives for free.

I also don't believe that most of the blogs were discussing currently are in compliance with the FTCA.

But you will continue to impugn the motives of people who are critical of blogs, and we will continue to have intelligent logical points about the problematic business practices, thriving off of your attacks. America, man.
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Old Jul 6, 17, 2:36 pm
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Originally Posted by Adam1222 View Post
Sure, that's one theory of economics- called the invisible hand. If one simply ignores and stays silent about businesses that have troubling practices, market forces will drive those businesses out of business.

I alas am not a Keynesian.

I have yet to see any evidence that bloggers have gotten richer off of mine or other criticism. Indeed, I have seen some slight alterations in practices that, based on timing, appear to be responsive. These blogs don't thrive from the attention on inside baseball posts like these. They thrive off of Rolling Stone articles and the false presentation that they live luxurious lives for free.

I also don't believe that most of the blogs were discussing currently are in compliance with the FTCA.

But you will continue to impugn the motives of people who are critical of blogs, and we will continue to have intelligent logical points about the problematic business practices, thriving off of your attacks. America, man.
If a business is in violation of applicable law and it is offending, then the persons who feel wronged are free to try to get the government to go after those failing to comply with applicable laws and regulations. Has that happened with any of the bigger boardingarea.com blogs?

The invisible hand is applicable, whether or not a business is lawful. But legal courses of action are available when and where the invisible hand has parties in violation of the law.

I have no doubt that some of the criticism of bloggers on this part of FT have resulted in making some of those blog businesses more financially successful than they would have otherwise been. When people are unhappy with a business -- such as a particular blog -- that thrives on attention, then why give it the attention that fuels its revenue? It doesn't seem to be effective, rational strategy for the critics, hypocritical or otherwise, of a business to fuel the business by giving it ever more attention of the sort that actually helps add toward its financial success.
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Old Jul 6, 17, 3:10 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
If a business is in violation of applicable law and it is offending, then the persons who feel wronged are free to try to get the government to go after those failing to comply with applicable laws and regulations. Has that happened with any of the bigger boardingarea.com blogs?

The invisible hand is applicable, whether or not a business is lawful. But legal courses of action are available when and where the invisible hand has parties in violation of the law.

I have no doubt that some of the criticism of bloggers on this part of FT have resulted in making some of those blog businesses more financially successful than they would have otherwise been. When people are unhappy with a business -- such as a particular blog -- that thrives on attention, then why give it the attention that fuels its revenue? It doesn't seem to be effective, rational strategy for the critics, hypocritical or otherwise, of a business to fuel the business by giving it ever more attention of the sort that actually helps add toward its financial success.
And I disagree and find it rational. Shrug. I think we need to come to a detente and agree neither of us are persuading each other. Perhaps you should stay away from a thread that inherently is about sharing critiques and concerns about the business model?

Unfortunately not every violation of the FTCA, for example, is easily prosecutable. Bankrate has lobbyists and political contributions for a reason. And the FTC, even in Democratic administrations, doesn't have the resources to go after every deceptive blog. That doesn't mean they're legal. For private actions, you have to find someone who is willing to admit in court that they were deceived by a blogger. And having met with many victims of various deceptions, the fact that most people won't sue on it is more about the civil justice system in America than proof no such victims exist. But if anyone reading this has been misled into thinking a blogger was providing disinterested advice, please send me a private message. Fortunately , I will shortly be in a position to possibly pursue cases like that.
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Old Jul 6, 17, 3:38 pm
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Originally Posted by Adam1222 View Post
And I disagree and find it rational. Shrug. I think we need to come to a detente and agree neither of us are persuading each other. Perhaps you should stay away from a thread that inherently is about sharing critiques and concerns about the business model?

Unfortunately not every violation of the FTCA, for example, is easily prosecutable. Bankrate has lobbyists and political contributions for a reason. And the FTC, even in Democratic administrations, doesn't have the resources to go after every deceptive blog. That doesn't mean they're legal. For private actions, you have to find someone who is willing to admit in court that they were deceived by a blogger. And having met with many victims of various deceptions, the fact that most people won't sue on it is more about the civil justice system in America than proof no such victims exist. But if anyone reading this has been misled into thinking a blogger was providing disinterested advice, please send me a private message. Fortunately , I will shortly be in a position to possibly pursue cases like that.
Class action lawsuits against credit-card-selling bloggers? "America, man"/woman.
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Old Jul 6, 17, 3:41 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
Class action lawsuits against credit-card-selling bloggers? "America, man"/woman.
who said anything about class actions? Since the relief would primarily be injunctive, only one complainant would be fine with me. But you're obviously just trolling at this point.

Yes, The existing regimes for credit cards and regulations of marketing would have made it impossible for Ben, Brian, Ingy, or Daraius to have made a living in any other country.

again, can you just agree that we have different perspectives and stop following me from thread to thread making the same arguments suggesting that the idea of my participating on this discussion forum is invalid? I've already submitted and stopped participating in one thread because of the relentless bullying for having an opinion about a blog.

Last edited by Adam1222; Jul 6, 17 at 3:47 pm
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Old Jul 6, 17, 3:47 pm
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Originally Posted by Adam1222 View Post
Yes, The existing regimes for credit cards and regulations of marketing would have made it impossible for Ben, Brian, Ingy, or Daraius to have made a living in any other country.
I don't buy that for even a New York minute. Some bloggers have made a living from blogging even in countries with rather extensive regulation for lending instruments and marketing.
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Old Jul 6, 17, 4:10 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
I don't buy that for even a New York minute. Some bloggers have made a living from blogging even in countries with rather extensive regulation for lending instruments and marketing.
Are you going to just pretend that affiliate marketing is the same IN Europe?

I'll let one of the international bloggers on flyertalk chime in here and explain how different it is in their systems, as they have multiple times. I could search and paste their detailed explanations, but...

I admire your tenacity in fighting on behalf of the poor voiceless credit card marketing bloggers.

Last edited by Adam1222; Jul 7, 17 at 12:45 am
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Old Jul 6, 17, 9:47 pm
  #340
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Originally Posted by ingy View Post
I use a investment advisor that charges me a percentage of my acct balance and a small annual fee. She books her trades through a Schwab advisory account and Schwab gets like $4.95 per trade. 75% of my stuff is in stocks, where that applies, and the remainder in partnerships (hotels, office buildings, startups).

I actually get a form at tax time that highlights her fees for the CPA. Its always been way less than my earnings. (6 Years Now)
Oh no. Seriously!? Her fees are less than your earnings?! In THIS market over the longest bull market since WWII? I certainly hope so!

I hope she's hot. And you meet with her in person regularly. Because that's the only way she's worth it. I put about a million in an no-load minuscule fee S&P index fund in 2011 and it has returned about 110% since then with practically no fees at all. To me, that's way hotter than even the hottest investment adviser.

My I be so cheeky as to recommend Frugal Investing Girl: http://www.allthingsfrugal.com/f_invest.htm

Last edited by kokonutz; Jul 6, 17 at 10:16 pm
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Old Jul 7, 17, 12:41 am
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Originally Posted by kokonutz View Post
Oh no. Seriously!? Her fees are less than your earnings?! In THIS market over the longest bull market since WWII? I certainly hope so!

I hope she's hot. And you meet with her in person regularly. Because that's the only way she's worth it. I put about a million in an no-load minuscule fee S&P index fund in 2011 and it has returned about 110% since then with practically no fees at all. To me, that's way hotter than even the hottest investment adviser.

My I be so cheeky as to recommend Frugal Investing Girl: http://www.allthingsfrugal.com/f_invest.htm
Some of the blogs and other media businesses thrive off getting attention over conflicts, engineered or otherwise. For example, on slow news days in the miles and points world, VFTW has a history of trying to do the OMNI PR thing to get some attention. And even sports channels have tried to play the game of stoking flames over one thing or another to grab attention that is meant to be monetized. "Moral" conflicts over the business of blogs generates the kind of attention that attention-seeking businesses want when the attention -- good or bad -- is effectively money.
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Old Jul 7, 17, 2:22 am
  #342
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Originally Posted by GUWonder View Post
I don't buy that for even a New York minute. Some bloggers have made a living from blogging even in countries with rather extensive regulation for lending instruments and marketing.
I have an office and a full-time employee and that would easily still be affordable if I lost the relatively modest Amex income I get. 20 of the 26 credit cards I promote do not pay anything.

Loyalty Lobby has zero card income and does very nicely.

The odd thing in the US is that bloggers look at the guys who make money with credit cards, realise they cannot get links and therefore conclude they cannot make any money full stop. This is complete rubbish.
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Old Jul 7, 17, 2:32 am
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Old Jul 7, 17, 2:54 am
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Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
I have an office and a full-time employee and that would easily still be affordable if I lost the relatively modest Amex income I get. 20 of the 26 credit cards I promote do not pay anything.

Loyalty Lobby has zero card income and does very nicely.

The odd thing in the US is that bloggers look at the guys who make money with credit cards, realise they cannot get links and therefore conclude they cannot make any money full stop. This is complete rubbish.
My apologies if that appeared to be my point. I was suggesting that income the size of Brian or Ben's is not possible in other countries, and that the business model is different in the US. Both your blog and Loyalty Lobby have completely different business models than Bankrate, etc., and it appears you're not disagreeing. Indeed, I believe you have pointed out before that there are different restrictions on your credit card marketing that American bloggers do not face.
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Old Jul 7, 17, 3:51 am
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Of course different jurisdictions have different regulatory regimes. It's not like the regulatory regimes are even consistent all across the EU in this regard either. But what does that change? People adapt to local conditions.

Originally Posted by Adam1222 View Post

Yes, The existing regimes for credit cards and regulations of marketing would have made it impossible for Ben, Brian, Ingy, or Daraius to have made a living in any other country.
As indicated earlier, I still don't buy that for a NYC minute. Even non-US bloggers in this space have made a living from blogging -- including in non-US localities that are not the Wild West in terms of regulations. US bloggers that made a rather decent return from blogging about loyalty programs have had different amounts of iicing on the cake from credit cards. The same sort of dynamic is applicable from here in the EU too.

And now we have some from the EU here even confirming the same as I indicated.

Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
I have an office and a full-time employee and that would easily still be affordable if I lost the relatively modest Amex income I get. 20 of the 26 credit cards I promote do not pay anything.

Loyalty Lobby has zero card income and does very nicely.

The odd thing in the US is that bloggers look at the guys who make money with credit cards, realise they cannot get links and therefore conclude they cannot make any money full stop. This is complete rubbish.
The business model only works when bloggers live in the Wild West -- even if it's the wilds of western London or western Germany or in the gun-slinging US. Oh wait, bloggers in this space in heavily underbanked localities are also making dimes and then some in this space.

Last edited by GUWonder; Jul 7, 17 at 4:02 am
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