Jan 21, 2019, 8:48 am
Last edit by: hayzel7773
Summary of Events
https://nypost.com/2019/01/21/flight-attendant-says-overweight-passenger-forced-her-to-wipe-his-butt/ - New York Post
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6615261/31st-passenger-forces-stewardess-wipe-bottom-long-flight-Los-Angeles-Taiwan.html - Daily Mail
http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201901210016.aspx - Focus Taiwan
EVA's Disability In-Flight Assistance Policy: https://www.evaair.com/en-global/managing-your-trip/special-assistance-and-inquiry/special-assistance/#assistance-during-the-flight
FA/Union News Conference (in Chinese Mandarin): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pt-gYpN1D8
BR Statements
1/21 Post FA News Conference Statement from EVA Air (in Chinese): https://www.evaair.com/zh-tw/about-eva-air/news/travel-news/2019-01-21-pr-publish.html (English summary: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30681664-post60.html)
1/20 Initial statement: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30677669-post11.html
Other Taiwanese Media Reports (in Chinese)
1/21 https://udn.com/news/story/7315/3605843 - includes clarification from BR management post FA union news conference
1/20 https://udn.com/news/story/7315/3604203 - one of the first reports
1/20 https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realtime/20190120/1504018 - another one of the earlier reports (video is not the actual event and this news paper is like the New York Post of Taiwan and Hong Kong)
- Pax boarded last in a wheelchair on January 18th for BR15, LAX-TPE, and he was connecting onto BKK.
- Because of his size, he requests to be seated in an empty row of 3. They happily move him.
- 2hr30min into flight, the man requests that the flight attendant make arrangements for him to use the J class bathroom as he cannot fit in the Y one. The flight attendant inquires with the Chief Purser, who gives the ok.
- 3 flight attendants along with the original FA (She is a deputy purser in charge of the Y cabin) assist him to the restroom so that he can use it. They inform him where the call button is, then shut the door for him.
- One minute later, he rings the call button and the FA's open the door. There, he says that he cannot pull his underwear down; it's off in the front but on in the back. A flight attendant brings a blanket over to cover him as his genitals are now exposed. He whacks the FA's hand and tells her to take that away and help him pull his underwear down. She agrees, dons plastic gloves, and then pulls the back down for him before leaving the lav.
- 15 minutes later, the man says that they can come in and help him now. Upon opening the door, they discover he is still sitting on the toilet with his pants at his ankles. He says, "I'm done. You can wipe my butt now". The flight attendant says she cannot do that, and he berates her, saying she agreed to do it previously and now he already went so he needs her to do it or he's just going to sit in the lav. The CP is called in from rest at this point and an all-call is made.
- After further back and forth with the passenger and conversation between the crew, the CP makes the decision to wipe for him, even though it is made clear they do not do these things. The flight was expected to be extremely turbulent and the FA's decided they could not inconvenience other pax over this situation. CP cannot bear to have her junior crew do it, so she will do it herself while the DP holds the man up. She dons 3 layers of plastic gloves and proceeds to wipe. While wiping, the man moans "hmmmmm, deeper, deeper". After the first wipe, the man claims that he is not clean and demands she wipes again. She wipes a total of three (3) times!
- After the 3rd wipe, they say they cannot wipe anymore. He then says "You better have wiped me clean".
- The pax now demands the FA pull his pants up for him, which she does because she has already been traumatized at this point. He is helped back to his seat.
- Pax goes #2 again later on in the flight, the same scenario plays out again.
- He has flown roughly 20 flights with BR and did not start presenting problems until May 2018 when he allegedly developed health issues.
- According to the FA's, multiple BIP reports have been made against him throughout this year.
- In May 2018 on the same flight, he made the same demands but was struck down. Instead, he defecates into his pants in his seat. Pax complains, leading to a discipline hearing for the FA's as to why this happened in this first place. They are let off with warnings.
- He urinated himself in another instance on a TPE-BKK flight.
- He demanded a Thai crew member change and clean his diaper on a TPE-BKK flight but was struck down. Instead, he let the diaper overflow into the seat.
- On the connecting TPE-BKK flight on the 19th, he spilled juice in his crotch area. When he flagged a flight attendant to get her to bring napkins, he also asked her to wipe. She gave him napkins to wipe and said he could do it himself, to which he replied "You can do better than me". The flight attendant wiped for him.
https://nypost.com/2019/01/21/flight-attendant-says-overweight-passenger-forced-her-to-wipe-his-butt/ - New York Post
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6615261/31st-passenger-forces-stewardess-wipe-bottom-long-flight-Los-Angeles-Taiwan.html - Daily Mail
http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201901210016.aspx - Focus Taiwan
EVA's Disability In-Flight Assistance Policy: https://www.evaair.com/en-global/managing-your-trip/special-assistance-and-inquiry/special-assistance/#assistance-during-the-flight
FA/Union News Conference (in Chinese Mandarin): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pt-gYpN1D8
BR Statements
1/21 Post FA News Conference Statement from EVA Air (in Chinese): https://www.evaair.com/zh-tw/about-eva-air/news/travel-news/2019-01-21-pr-publish.html (English summary: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30681664-post60.html)
1/20 Initial statement: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30677669-post11.html
Other Taiwanese Media Reports (in Chinese)
1/21 https://udn.com/news/story/7315/3605843 - includes clarification from BR management post FA union news conference
1/20 https://udn.com/news/story/7315/3604203 - one of the first reports
1/20 https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realtime/20190120/1504018 - another one of the earlier reports (video is not the actual event and this news paper is like the New York Post of Taiwan and Hong Kong)
BR Flight Attendant Sexually Harassed by Gentleman with Disability
Jan 20, 2019, 9:56 am
#16
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
- The pax asked the flight attendant to wipe his bum, of which she obliged because he claimed to have a disability. In the process, he kept saying “hmmmm, deeper, deeper”. The CP stopped the wiping and he complained that he was not properly cleaned and partially soiled.
Jan 20, 2019, 10:08 am
#17
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
As someone that works with ADA in public transportation, the wording is always “reasonable accommodation”.
If that person disability requires significant assistance such as what’s been described, he/she must make personal arrangements for a caregiver as travelling companion.
here is a sample from United website
If that person disability requires significant assistance such as what’s been described, he/she must make personal arrangements for a caregiver as travelling companion.
here is a sample from United website
En route assistance
Flight attendants will offer assistance to semi-ambulatory customers in getting to/from the seat during boarding and/or disembarkation and to/from the onboard lavatory. They may assist with loading and retrieving carry-on items and other assistive devices stowed on board the aircraft. They will also assist with meal preparation such as opening packages and identifying items. They cannot assist with any medical services, assistance inside the lavatory, or in actual feeding
Jan 20, 2019, 2:08 pm
#18
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: United Plat
Posts: 499
1. EVA only hires young female flight attendants. Senior FAs are not young but still younger than those on United on average.
2. This old white male was on his way to BKK.
3. This behavior was not his first time as many FAs and ground staff know this guy.
The details are beyond my belief. This is in Chinese language (https://udn.com/news/story/7321/3604203). If you don't read Chinese, you can find word "deeper, deeper". This is when he asked FA to wipe his bum.
I don't think this passenger was totally innocent. Union should doing something in this case in addition to demanding more hours and money at outstation.
Jan 20, 2019, 4:46 pm
#19
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: YYZ
Programs: Ex-Bonvoyed, Hyatt, Hilton, BR, AC, AA
Posts: 1,294
Can I throw a thought out there, as someone with a mobility challenge and a passenger of size, depending on the size of the bathroom on a plane it can be very hard to bend, turn and other things that are much easier in an airport or any normal bathroom. I dont think that he didn't need help on the ground proves or disproves sexual harassment. I did laugh that they were surprised he exposed his genitals, isn't that inherent to someone going to the bathroom? Beyond that the deeper deeper is creepy as hell but hard to tell from article if sexual or not. Didn't say also if his disabilities were physical only or also developmental.
That said, if the FAs refused to provide bathroom services, I wonder what would've happened. If he insisted on staying in the bathroom, how much trouble would there be before the plane is clear to land (given he has no seat belts)?
Jan 20, 2019, 5:47 pm
#20
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Madrid spain
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Gold, SPG PLT
Posts: 574
I wonder what would be the consequence if the FA refused to assist the passenger, and the passenger complained to BR. Where will BR stand in this scenario?
Show the passenger employee handbook or take disciplinary action against the FA?
Show the passenger employee handbook or take disciplinary action against the FA?
Jan 20, 2019, 6:34 pm
#21
Join Date: May 2001
Location: RNO, NV, USA.
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 5,062
I read another opinion that wheelchair assist passengers should have been asked before boarding if they could use the lav on their own. If not, the passenger should have been refused carriage (since it would mean the passenger needed additional caretakers). That opinion also said that this is definitely not within the FAs' responsibilities and should have been refused - some of it has to do with the liabilities - what happens if the passenger gets hurt?
BR needs to further investigate and support their FA staff and prevent this abuse in the future. Certainly United Airlines policy is clear, as global happy traveller makes clear.
Jan 20, 2019, 7:03 pm
#22
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
Clearly wheel-chair assist passengers should be asked before boarding. However in reading this thread, it is not clear that he had or needed a wheel-chair. There are definitely liability issues here. What happens if a FA tries to assist him in the washroom and he falls? A lawsuit? It is stated that he was a large man.
BR needs to further investigate and support their FA staff and prevent this abuse in the future. Certainly United Airlines policy is clear, as global happy traveller makes clear.
BR needs to further investigate and support their FA staff and prevent this abuse in the future. Certainly United Airlines policy is clear, as global happy traveller makes clear.
The pax reportedly has had many write-ups by CPs in the past regarding his behavior. This reminds me of the incident starting in 2009 till 2011, where a gold card holder on the TPE-HKG route demanded a CP bring him meals 10 times because he was awoken from his sleep, he demanded he be served his meal prior to takeoff, and he went as far as to open galley carts on his own for juice. It took BR two years to finally react and blacklist him because the FAs story broke the news. It has been reported that another FA previously pushed this story to the news, but it was struck down by BR mgmt. Let's hope that BR mgmt. does the right thing this time.
Jan 20, 2019, 7:09 pm
#23
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
I can't see how this can be construed as anything but sexual harassment. If he had special requirements, he should've informed the airline ahead of time. He cannot force FAs to provide nursing services that they are neither required nor qualified to provide. This is pretty clear cut. Also, the larger RL bathrooms are pretty big, I can change into PJs in them without touching any surface, including walls.
That said, if the FAs refused to provide bathroom services, I wonder what would've happened. If he insisted on staying in the bathroom, how much trouble would there be before the plane is clear to land (given he has no seat belts)?
That said, if the FAs refused to provide bathroom services, I wonder what would've happened. If he insisted on staying in the bathroom, how much trouble would there be before the plane is clear to land (given he has no seat belts)?
Had the gentleman created a protest in the bathroom, the police would've met the plane upon arrival. Prior to that, it would require quite a bit of convincing to get him to move from the bathroom to a seat. The CP cannot ok the cabin if there is someone in the restroom. If it eventually took long enough, the Captain would be forced to override the rules and allow a landing with him in the restroom or they would need to physically move him out into a seat with the help of crew and pax. The man clearly cannot be put into a jump seat just based on the photos...the seatbelt would not work and the shoulder straps would not pull out that far.
Jan 20, 2019, 7:23 pm
#24
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
I read another opinion that wheelchair assist passengers should have been asked before boarding if they could use the lav on their own. If not, the passenger should have been refused carriage (since it would mean the passenger needed additional caretakers). That opinion also said that this is definitely not within the FAs' responsibilities and should have been refused - some of it has to do with the liabilities - what happens if the passenger gets hurt?
However, what do you do when someone is in the first 2-3 hours of a 14 hour flight (FA's account said after the first meal service) and need to go to #2 ? Divert the flight?
The FA's account was pretty emotional - including the passenger started yelling at her when he somehow thought the FAs promised to wipe him (but I would be also if I already did #2 and cannot clean myself up), the passenger wanted the lav door to remain open while he did #2 (claiming claustrophobic but BR's big J lav is big), the passenger was showing off how much money he had (definitely the FA's interpretation)... Then of course the fact the passenger refused help using the bathroom by the male staffers at TPE airport.
I think there can be another interpretation of what happened and the reality is probably somewhere in the middle. The guy definitely sounded unappreciative and rude, if nothing else.
However, what do you do when someone is in the first 2-3 hours of a 14 hour flight (FA's account said after the first meal service) and need to go to #2 ? Divert the flight?
The FA's account was pretty emotional - including the passenger started yelling at her when he somehow thought the FAs promised to wipe him (but I would be also if I already did #2 and cannot clean myself up), the passenger wanted the lav door to remain open while he did #2 (claiming claustrophobic but BR's big J lav is big), the passenger was showing off how much money he had (definitely the FA's interpretation)... Then of course the fact the passenger refused help using the bathroom by the male staffers at TPE airport.
I think there can be another interpretation of what happened and the reality is probably somewhere in the middle. The guy definitely sounded unappreciative and rude, if nothing else.
BR asks when you order a wheelchair whether or not you can walk on your own once onboard. I think they need to start giving wheelchair pax a paper stating what they can and cannot do. FA's should be given a stack of these papers so when these unreasonable and inappropriate requests come up, they can just pull it out and reference it to pax. If there is something on the "can't" list that you need help with and you have no companion, you need to be denied boarding.
The FA's are pretty upset over this because of BR's poorly worded statement. They basically blamed the flight attendant for complying with the demands and said that she could've said no. I actually agree with them on this; if Golden Kou cannot even do the right thing and defend their own FA instead of saying she "should've" done this, he needs to go. The statement was poorly worded and full of "should have done this" instead of providing support for their own employees.
Jan 20, 2019, 7:43 pm
#25
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,967
I wonder if the cabin crew had advanced knowledge of his past behavior and why BR did not blacklist the guy earlier.
In general, the good service companies in Taiwan are very accommodating. If the customer insists or puts up a scene, then they comply. So, these people would repeat the bad behavior. The Taiwanese has a term for customers who are demanding and difficult and this guy definitely qualifies.
There is also some nationalism in play. The Taiwanese are generally very welcoming of foreigners (at least those from more developed countries) but expect them to respect and follow local customs and rules. I think if the guy was more respectful, then things could have turned out differently.
There was a story that floated around a few years ago on how CI or BR cabin crew took care of an older gentleman who had a travel companion but, because of his diminished mental capabilities, made a huge mess in the lav and was totally ashamed of what happened. Many of those FAs have nursing background so if there was no abusive/sexual behavior, this could have turned into another good story.
If this guy was Taiwanese, the netizens would have conducted a "meat search" to identify him. The fact this is now out is not good for BR when it comes to passenger privacy but I think most of us feel the guy deserves it.
I have to say that the FA's account was too emotional. One one hand, this was a young woman who experienced a dramatic event and you have to give her credit for speaking out. On the other, going public with such an emotional description of the event and her feelings is not necessarily wise. On top of that, the union is now using this...
In general, the good service companies in Taiwan are very accommodating. If the customer insists or puts up a scene, then they comply. So, these people would repeat the bad behavior. The Taiwanese has a term for customers who are demanding and difficult and this guy definitely qualifies.
There is also some nationalism in play. The Taiwanese are generally very welcoming of foreigners (at least those from more developed countries) but expect them to respect and follow local customs and rules. I think if the guy was more respectful, then things could have turned out differently.
There was a story that floated around a few years ago on how CI or BR cabin crew took care of an older gentleman who had a travel companion but, because of his diminished mental capabilities, made a huge mess in the lav and was totally ashamed of what happened. Many of those FAs have nursing background so if there was no abusive/sexual behavior, this could have turned into another good story.
If this guy was Taiwanese, the netizens would have conducted a "meat search" to identify him. The fact this is now out is not good for BR when it comes to passenger privacy but I think most of us feel the guy deserves it.
I have to say that the FA's account was too emotional. One one hand, this was a young woman who experienced a dramatic event and you have to give her credit for speaking out. On the other, going public with such an emotional description of the event and her feelings is not necessarily wise. On top of that, the union is now using this...
Jan 20, 2019, 8:15 pm
#27
Join Date: May 2001
Location: RNO, NV, USA.
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 5,062
According to the CP report, the guy was extremely nasty when the FA was hesitant when he wanted her to wipe. He created a huge scene and started yelling at the crew, including the use of vulgarities and curse words, in the galley area. Additionally, he claimed while on the can that they were violating his disability rights. Eventually, ....
Jan 20, 2019, 8:30 pm
#28
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NYC, SEA, TPE
Programs: BR Diamond, B6 Mosaic
Posts: 436
BR management usually sides with the passengers, so that's why the FAs were so upset and posted this. The ones I spoke with said that they probably would have helped him with his requests out of fear that the company would blame them for any customer complaints. I think a lot of the issues the FAs have is that the company's default is to stand by the passengers as opposed to their own staff.
One of the FAs I spoke with remembers flying with him from TPE-BKK. For what it's worth, she said he was perfectly normal on that flight.
One of the FAs I spoke with remembers flying with him from TPE-BKK. For what it's worth, she said he was perfectly normal on that flight.
Last edited by BlackHappy; Jan 21, 2019 at 8:40 am Reason: Removing the photo
Jan 20, 2019, 10:11 pm
#29
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: YYZ/YHM/BUF
Programs: AA Plat, HH Gold, MR Plat
Posts: 4,212
OMG it's Andy from Little Britain USA! 
FAs shouldn't be expected to assist a passenger with using the toilet! If the man had money, then hiring a care worker to travel with him shouldn't be an issue.
FAs shouldn't be expected to assist a passenger with using the toilet! If the man had money, then hiring a care worker to travel with him shouldn't be an issue.