Jan 21, 2019, 8:48 am
Last edit by: hayzel7773
Summary of Events
https://nypost.com/2019/01/21/flight-attendant-says-overweight-passenger-forced-her-to-wipe-his-butt/ - New York Post
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6615261/31st-passenger-forces-stewardess-wipe-bottom-long-flight-Los-Angeles-Taiwan.html - Daily Mail
http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201901210016.aspx - Focus Taiwan
EVA's Disability In-Flight Assistance Policy: https://www.evaair.com/en-global/managing-your-trip/special-assistance-and-inquiry/special-assistance/#assistance-during-the-flight
FA/Union News Conference (in Chinese Mandarin): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pt-gYpN1D8
BR Statements
1/21 Post FA News Conference Statement from EVA Air (in Chinese): https://www.evaair.com/zh-tw/about-eva-air/news/travel-news/2019-01-21-pr-publish.html (English summary: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30681664-post60.html)
1/20 Initial statement: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30677669-post11.html
Other Taiwanese Media Reports (in Chinese)
1/21 https://udn.com/news/story/7315/3605843 - includes clarification from BR management post FA union news conference
1/20 https://udn.com/news/story/7315/3604203 - one of the first reports
1/20 https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realtime/20190120/1504018 - another one of the earlier reports (video is not the actual event and this news paper is like the New York Post of Taiwan and Hong Kong)
- Pax boarded last in a wheelchair on January 18th for BR15, LAX-TPE, and he was connecting onto BKK.
- Because of his size, he requests to be seated in an empty row of 3. They happily move him.
- 2hr30min into flight, the man requests that the flight attendant make arrangements for him to use the J class bathroom as he cannot fit in the Y one. The flight attendant inquires with the Chief Purser, who gives the ok.
- 3 flight attendants along with the original FA (She is a deputy purser in charge of the Y cabin) assist him to the restroom so that he can use it. They inform him where the call button is, then shut the door for him.
- One minute later, he rings the call button and the FA's open the door. There, he says that he cannot pull his underwear down; it's off in the front but on in the back. A flight attendant brings a blanket over to cover him as his genitals are now exposed. He whacks the FA's hand and tells her to take that away and help him pull his underwear down. She agrees, dons plastic gloves, and then pulls the back down for him before leaving the lav.
- 15 minutes later, the man says that they can come in and help him now. Upon opening the door, they discover he is still sitting on the toilet with his pants at his ankles. He says, "I'm done. You can wipe my butt now". The flight attendant says she cannot do that, and he berates her, saying she agreed to do it previously and now he already went so he needs her to do it or he's just going to sit in the lav. The CP is called in from rest at this point and an all-call is made.
- After further back and forth with the passenger and conversation between the crew, the CP makes the decision to wipe for him, even though it is made clear they do not do these things. The flight was expected to be extremely turbulent and the FA's decided they could not inconvenience other pax over this situation. CP cannot bear to have her junior crew do it, so she will do it herself while the DP holds the man up. She dons 3 layers of plastic gloves and proceeds to wipe. While wiping, the man moans "hmmmmm, deeper, deeper". After the first wipe, the man claims that he is not clean and demands she wipes again. She wipes a total of three (3) times!
- After the 3rd wipe, they say they cannot wipe anymore. He then says "You better have wiped me clean".
- The pax now demands the FA pull his pants up for him, which she does because she has already been traumatized at this point. He is helped back to his seat.
- Pax goes #2 again later on in the flight, the same scenario plays out again.
- He has flown roughly 20 flights with BR and did not start presenting problems until May 2018 when he allegedly developed health issues.
- According to the FA's, multiple BIP reports have been made against him throughout this year.
- In May 2018 on the same flight, he made the same demands but was struck down. Instead, he defecates into his pants in his seat. Pax complains, leading to a discipline hearing for the FA's as to why this happened in this first place. They are let off with warnings.
- He urinated himself in another instance on a TPE-BKK flight.
- He demanded a Thai crew member change and clean his diaper on a TPE-BKK flight but was struck down. Instead, he let the diaper overflow into the seat.
- On the connecting TPE-BKK flight on the 19th, he spilled juice in his crotch area. When he flagged a flight attendant to get her to bring napkins, he also asked her to wipe. She gave him napkins to wipe and said he could do it himself, to which he replied "You can do better than me". The flight attendant wiped for him.
https://nypost.com/2019/01/21/flight-attendant-says-overweight-passenger-forced-her-to-wipe-his-butt/ - New York Post
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6615261/31st-passenger-forces-stewardess-wipe-bottom-long-flight-Los-Angeles-Taiwan.html - Daily Mail
http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201901210016.aspx - Focus Taiwan
EVA's Disability In-Flight Assistance Policy: https://www.evaair.com/en-global/managing-your-trip/special-assistance-and-inquiry/special-assistance/#assistance-during-the-flight
FA/Union News Conference (in Chinese Mandarin): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-pt-gYpN1D8
BR Statements
1/21 Post FA News Conference Statement from EVA Air (in Chinese): https://www.evaair.com/zh-tw/about-eva-air/news/travel-news/2019-01-21-pr-publish.html (English summary: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30681664-post60.html)
1/20 Initial statement: https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/30677669-post11.html
Other Taiwanese Media Reports (in Chinese)
1/21 https://udn.com/news/story/7315/3605843 - includes clarification from BR management post FA union news conference
1/20 https://udn.com/news/story/7315/3604203 - one of the first reports
1/20 https://tw.appledaily.com/new/realtime/20190120/1504018 - another one of the earlier reports (video is not the actual event and this news paper is like the New York Post of Taiwan and Hong Kong)
BR Flight Attendant Sexually Harassed by Gentleman with Disability
Jan 21, 2019, 3:52 am
#46
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: PHL, NYC, DC
Posts: 9,708
i blame BR management for much of this.....
1st fault was admitting that person on-board without a caregiver.
2nd fault was not calling it an medical incident on board and asking for professional assistance for help
3rd fault for not managing disruptive behaviour when it started, instead they obliged.
in my little armchair world, I would have warned about his behaviour, call for medical assistance and if need be call authorities (up to and including diverting the flight).
1st fault was admitting that person on-board without a caregiver.
2nd fault was not calling it an medical incident on board and asking for professional assistance for help
3rd fault for not managing disruptive behaviour when it started, instead they obliged.
in my little armchair world, I would have warned about his behaviour, call for medical assistance and if need be call authorities (up to and including diverting the flight).
Last edited by global happy traveller; Jan 21, 2019 at 6:31 am
Jan 21, 2019, 5:26 am
#47
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Why was this disguting POS even allowed to connect to another flight? Nuts.
Even though the crew might not be able or willing to do something about him right then and there but he should maybe meet the right kind of passenger on one of his flights. A punch in the face would maybe teach him a lesson.
Even though the crew might not be able or willing to do something about him right then and there but he should maybe meet the right kind of passenger on one of his flights. A punch in the face would maybe teach him a lesson.
Jan 21, 2019, 5:34 am
#48
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Posts: 10,571
Jan 21, 2019, 5:37 am
#49
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It's amazing that he wasn't banned earlier. I wonder if he has been banned from US airlines or other airlines? Imagine pulling this on United. They would kick him in the genitals and lock him in the lavatory, divert the plane and have him arrested.
Jan 21, 2019, 7:30 am
#51
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NYC, SEA, TPE
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Posts: 436
Jan 21, 2019, 8:04 am
#52
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Posts: 10,967
The sad thing is he would never even attempt to pull this on UA. BR is an easy target - a foreign carrier, with female, young and accommodating FAs, etc. The predator saw the opportunity and tested with increasingly bad behavior each time.
Jan 21, 2019, 8:17 am
#53
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The only thing I will say in defense of this incident is that, in general, the lavatories are too small, especially on US-flagged carriers. I have no experience with EVA Air so I can't comment on their lavatories. But with Delta even the business-class lavatories on most of the airline's long-haul aircraft are too small to comfortably change clothes let alone use the toilet if you are obese.
Jan 21, 2019, 8:25 am
#54
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,967
The fact BR Management did not do anything about this guy based on prior incidents is very strange. BR/Evergreen is a highly process-oriented and disciplined company. Then trying to blame this on the cabin crew.
The cabin crew was put in the position where either way it would be wrong. Imagine the damage this did to employee morale! On top of that, I am sure other carriers do not like to see an airline that tolerates this kind of behavior.
All that said, when you are in the "damned if you do and damned if you don't" no win situation, those of us who are older and my cynical would follow rules before anything else. Then the big mistake was to not have the passenger arrested upon arrival at TPE. I think the captain should also take some responsibility.
It is the Chinese/Taiwanese culture to "Turn big things into small, turn small things into nothing". However, sometimes you have to make a big deal to warn people. How do you expect others to respect your employees if you don't? I remember in the very early days of their LAX service, some Taiwanese singer got drunk on LAX-TPE, the flight diverted to ANC and they actually got the singer to pay US$50,000 compensation.
All that said, everyone should proceed with care so the guy does not end up suing BR for anything. The FB posting, pictures and news conference worry me.
The cabin crew was put in the position where either way it would be wrong. Imagine the damage this did to employee morale! On top of that, I am sure other carriers do not like to see an airline that tolerates this kind of behavior.
All that said, when you are in the "damned if you do and damned if you don't" no win situation, those of us who are older and my cynical would follow rules before anything else. Then the big mistake was to not have the passenger arrested upon arrival at TPE. I think the captain should also take some responsibility.
It is the Chinese/Taiwanese culture to "Turn big things into small, turn small things into nothing". However, sometimes you have to make a big deal to warn people. How do you expect others to respect your employees if you don't? I remember in the very early days of their LAX service, some Taiwanese singer got drunk on LAX-TPE, the flight diverted to ANC and they actually got the singer to pay US$50,000 compensation.
All that said, everyone should proceed with care so the guy does not end up suing BR for anything. The FB posting, pictures and news conference worry me.
Jan 21, 2019, 8:36 am
#55
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,967
The only thing I will say in defense of this incident is that, in general, the lavatories are too small, especially on US-flagged carriers. I have no experience with EVA Air so I can't comment on their lavatories. But with Delta even the business-class lavatories on most of the airline's long-haul aircraft are too small to comfortably change clothes let alone use the toilet if you are obese.
Maybe BR will install some bidets like NH
Jan 21, 2019, 8:44 am
#56
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Here is a report in English: EVA flight attendant accuses passenger of sexual harassment | Society | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS
Jan 21, 2019, 8:51 am
#57
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 834
Here is a report in English: EVA flight attendant accuses passenger of sexual harassment Society FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS
Did you catch the last paragraph of the article?
“The company also said it backs the flight staff completely and are prepared to offer assistance, if needed, to sue the passenger.”
Jan 21, 2019, 8:53 am
#58
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,752
Here is a report in English: EVA flight attendant accuses passenger of sexual harassment Society FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS
Article mentioned there were no male FAs. What? As if a Male should be okay with wiping someone's a**? Seriously? Whether one is a Female, Male, Neutral, Genderless, should utterly refuse such a request period.
Jan 21, 2019, 8:54 am
#59
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: NYC, SEA, TPE
Programs: BR Diamond, B6 Mosaic
Posts: 436
The fact BR Management did not do anything about this guy based on prior incidents is very strange. BR/Evergreen is a highly process-oriented and disciplined company. Then trying to blame this on the cabin crew.
The cabin crew was put in the position where either way it would be wrong. Imagine the damage this did to employee morale! On top of that, I am sure other carriers do not like to see an airline that tolerates this kind of behavior.
All that said, when you are in the "damned if you do and damned if you don't" no win situation, those of us who are older and my cynical would follow rules before anything else. Then the big mistake was to not have the passenger arrested upon arrival at TPE. I think the captain should also take some responsibility.
It is the Chinese/Taiwanese culture to "Turn big things into small, turn small things into nothing". However, sometimes you have to make a big deal to warn people. How do you expect others to respect your employees if you don't? I remember in the very early days of their LAX service, some Taiwanese singer got drunk on LAX-TPE, the flight diverted to ANC and they actually got the singer to pay US$50,000 compensation.
All that said, everyone should proceed with care so the guy does not end up suing BR for anything. The FB posting, pictures and news conference worry me.
The cabin crew was put in the position where either way it would be wrong. Imagine the damage this did to employee morale! On top of that, I am sure other carriers do not like to see an airline that tolerates this kind of behavior.
All that said, when you are in the "damned if you do and damned if you don't" no win situation, those of us who are older and my cynical would follow rules before anything else. Then the big mistake was to not have the passenger arrested upon arrival at TPE. I think the captain should also take some responsibility.
It is the Chinese/Taiwanese culture to "Turn big things into small, turn small things into nothing". However, sometimes you have to make a big deal to warn people. How do you expect others to respect your employees if you don't? I remember in the very early days of their LAX service, some Taiwanese singer got drunk on LAX-TPE, the flight diverted to ANC and they actually got the singer to pay US$50,000 compensation.
All that said, everyone should proceed with care so the guy does not end up suing BR for anything. The FB posting, pictures and news conference worry me.
I think the FAs are really pissed because the company usually sides with the passengers and places the blame on the FAs. When a complaint letter is received, the company will look for an FA to blame, so they care reply to the passenger that the responsible party has been disciplined and the situation has been taken care of. From my perspective, if the FAs were faced with something so bad they can't sleep at night (ie, help this guy with his requests), they shouldn't have done it and just waited with the aftermath. Their response is that they know the company would come down on them hard, and they wanted to avoid that. It's hard for me to imagine being in such a position.
I felt like the DP (class of 2011--I think) at the conference was quite brave for speaking out. I'm curious how the CP responded on the flight when she was first presented with these problems. My guess is that DP '11 was L4 and would have to take the orders of whatever L1 said. The hierarchical culture of BR is another reason the FAs feel they have no "choice" when it comes to passenger requests. A lot of CPs try to avoid problems and prefer not to put issues in reports, so they'll advocate going along with whatever the passenger wants.
Jan 21, 2019, 8:55 am
#60
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Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,967
Looks like BR issued additional statement: https://www.evaair.com/zh-tw/about-e...r-publish.html
Essentially:
1 - passenger has 20 BR flights with no irregularity until last year due to health reasons
2 - cabin crew refused last time and passenger got other passengers to help - cabin crew was not disciplined
3 - this time, the guy requested help for lav 3 times - twice in-flight (handled by FAs once + male cockpit crew once) + once during transit at TPE
4 - BR is balancing between protecting employees and humanitarian concerns. Working with US lawyers to decide what to do
5 - If FAs want to sue passenger, BR will assist
6 - BR will train cabin crews to ensure they know they can decline unreasonable requests
What they should really do is to publish the English version of the statement so people know they mean business.
Essentially:
1 - passenger has 20 BR flights with no irregularity until last year due to health reasons
2 - cabin crew refused last time and passenger got other passengers to help - cabin crew was not disciplined
3 - this time, the guy requested help for lav 3 times - twice in-flight (handled by FAs once + male cockpit crew once) + once during transit at TPE
4 - BR is balancing between protecting employees and humanitarian concerns. Working with US lawyers to decide what to do
5 - If FAs want to sue passenger, BR will assist
6 - BR will train cabin crews to ensure they know they can decline unreasonable requests
What they should really do is to publish the English version of the statement so people know they mean business.