Eva Air Announces Significant Expansion and Changes for 2019
#46
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 352
UA reported 14.6c stage-adjusted yields for NYC-TPE, higher than HKG and ICN (on 1 stop flight options, so presumably IAD/BOS would be fairly similar). Non-stop service should only be higher.
#47
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Programs: DL Gold, QF, VA, CI
Posts: 99
True, but why not go after higher yield NA markets compared to what has been reported as low-yield BKK. Low cost structure means even more profit.
UA reported 14.6c stage-adjusted yields for NYC-TPE, higher than HKG and ICN (on 1 stop flight options, so presumably IAD/BOS would be fairly similar). Non-stop service should only be higher.
UA reported 14.6c stage-adjusted yields for NYC-TPE, higher than HKG and ICN (on 1 stop flight options, so presumably IAD/BOS would be fairly similar). Non-stop service should only be higher.
- Flying to TPE only from SFO, vice versa
- Connecting via SFO to fly to TPE, vice versa. They can draw passengers from basically any of the domestic ports UA flies to
BR, meanwhile, relies on Tier 1 NA cities with large, predominantly Asian populations who want to connect onwards to Asia via TPE. There may be some OD passengers who genuinely want to fly between TPE and NA, but by and large Taiwan's domestic and overseas population alone are not going to be enough to fill planes for some of these markets, particularly for a min 4 weekly frequency to sustain the market. They need the transit traffic. Currently they have most of the Tier 1 cities covered.
Further, there could be cargo considerations at play which makes the yield for MXP overall higher than a new NA city. Flying to the US East Coast would probably create load restrictions which severely limit their ability to carry higher yielding cargo.
#48
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 352
This isn't quite an apples to apples comparison as UA's target market are passengers either:
- Flying to TPE only from SFO, vice versa
- Connecting via SFO to fly to TPE, vice versa. They can draw passengers from basically any of the domestic ports UA flies to
1) UA has revealed relatively high-yield for the 1-stop NYC-TPE OD market, even in the presence of BR/CI non-stops and multiple other 1-stop options. There was discussion on the UA board about how TPE is probably in line for the next EWR TPAC ahead of ICN. IAD/BOS have similar demographics/affluence and are #6 and #10 in metro population, similar to Toronto.
2) BOS/IAD is bursting at the seams on TPAC, see the 90+ load factors on CX and JL, indicating a substantial amount of connecting traffic.
On the other hand, I do think these routes would be best served by 789s rather than 777s, and this would limit cargo. But routing cargo via BKK doesn't seem to be optimal from a cost point of view.
#49
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: AA Plat, DL, AS, UA, IHG Plat
Posts: 2,391
Europe-BKK has good yields but that doesn't mean US-BKK will have good yields because definition of good yield is relative to operating costs. Europe-BKK is roughly 5,000 nautical miles while US West Coast to BKK is over 7,000 nautical miles. You need much higher average fare for US-BKK to justify non-stop flights.
BOS or IAD to Asia is potentially good market for BR but east-west is probably right about equipment for cargo. I think BOS is a little saturated right now with JL, CX, HU. BR can take a wait and see approach.
Another one that people like to talk about is SJC-TPE. 77W definitely won't work on that route due to airport restrictions.
BOS or IAD to Asia is potentially good market for BR but east-west is probably right about equipment for cargo. I think BOS is a little saturated right now with JL, CX, HU. BR can take a wait and see approach.
Another one that people like to talk about is SJC-TPE. 77W definitely won't work on that route due to airport restrictions.
#50
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
I'm making two, distinct, arguments. I believe these arguments apply to both BOS/IAD, but PHL is close enough to JFK that it would be hard to make it work.
1) UA has revealed relatively high-yield for the 1-stop NYC-TPE OD market, even in the presence of BR/CI non-stops and multiple other 1-stop options. There was discussion on the UA board about how TPE is probably in line for the next EWR TPAC ahead of ICN. IAD/BOS have similar demographics/affluence and are #6 and #10 in metro population, similar to Toronto.
2) BOS/IAD is bursting at the seams on TPAC, see the 90+ load factors on CX and JL, indicating a substantial amount of connecting traffic.
On the other hand, I do think these routes would be best served by 789s rather than 777s, and this would limit cargo. But routing cargo via BKK doesn't seem to be optimal from a cost point of view.
1) UA has revealed relatively high-yield for the 1-stop NYC-TPE OD market, even in the presence of BR/CI non-stops and multiple other 1-stop options. There was discussion on the UA board about how TPE is probably in line for the next EWR TPAC ahead of ICN. IAD/BOS have similar demographics/affluence and are #6 and #10 in metro population, similar to Toronto.
2) BOS/IAD is bursting at the seams on TPAC, see the 90+ load factors on CX and JL, indicating a substantial amount of connecting traffic.
On the other hand, I do think these routes would be best served by 789s rather than 777s, and this would limit cargo. But routing cargo via BKK doesn't seem to be optimal from a cost point of view.
#51
Join Date: Aug 2005
Programs: AA Platinum for Life (2MM), BR Gold, AS MVP Gold, Marriott Lifetime Gold
Posts: 974
Doesn't seem to have stopped BR expanding Seattle service... SEA gets JL, CX, and SQ this year, and BR still expanded SEA from 7x to 10x weekly.
Personally I am highly skeptical that SEA has enough trans-Pacific passengers to support all these airlines. But it is nice to now finally have good representation of OneWorld to Asia. Until now we've had none, now we'll have 2.
Personally I am highly skeptical that SEA has enough trans-Pacific passengers to support all these airlines. But it is nice to now finally have good representation of OneWorld to Asia. Until now we've had none, now we'll have 2.
#52
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
Doesn't seem to have stopped BR expanding Seattle service... SEA gets JL, CX, and SQ this year, and BR still expanded SEA from 7x to 10x weekly.
Personally I am highly skeptical that SEA has enough trans-Pacific passengers to support all these airlines. But it is nice to now finally have good representation of OneWorld to Asia. Until now we've had none, now we'll have 2.
Personally I am highly skeptical that SEA has enough trans-Pacific passengers to support all these airlines. But it is nice to now finally have good representation of OneWorld to Asia. Until now we've had none, now we'll have 2.
#53
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 75
I'm kind of surprised that they start to focus on growing in Europe before some U.S. cities! Still remembering a few year ago EVA was talking about expanding to BOS, IAD in North America.. Does EVA even have right to operate route to Germany?
With Europe transitions to 789.. Wonder where they will put their 777s.. The only long haul expansion with 777 now is 3x weekly SEA for now.
But good news for EVA and TPE for getting some new destinations!
With Europe transitions to 789.. Wonder where they will put their 777s.. The only long haul expansion with 777 now is 3x weekly SEA for now.
But good news for EVA and TPE for getting some new destinations!
#54
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: KHH, FUK, SNA
Programs: BR, UA 1k, CX
Posts: 1,181
A big assumption to all this is that the new service will be a nonstop TPE-MXP flight, which the article does not say. If it's a fifth freedom flight via BKK then it will capture effectively all of the above categories, noting that if it operates as a day flight from TPE and an evening flight back:
- Morning departure from TPE allows BR to capture SE Asia transit traffic
- BKK-MXP-BKK leg serves OD passengers well with a noon departure from BKK and an evening departure from MXP
- BKK-MXP-BKK will have no overlap with TG's current service which is an evening departure from BKK followed by an early morning arrival back in BKK
- BKK-TPE return leg serves NA connecting traffic
#55
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Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
CDG is remaining 777, as is LHR. Both routes have more than enough cargo and demand to sustain a full 777 (CDG LF is 90%+ with full cargo and LHR is premium heavy)
#56
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: AAdvantage
Posts: 83
Just some random thoughts.. Is it likely that BR partners more extensively with other carriers in the NA? Seems like UA/AC are not very keen. I always feel that partnering with AS would work well with BR. Don't know if it is BR who is unwilling or AS... For now you can purchase tickets to secondary NA cites with connections to AS, but that's about it. Or BR can even partner with B6. I think SQ partners with both of them..
#57
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
Just some random thoughts.. Is it likely that BR partners more extensively with other carriers in the NA? Seems like UA/AC are not very keen. I always feel that partnering with AS would work well with BR. Don't know if it is BR who is unwilling or AS... For now you can purchase tickets to secondary NA cites with connections to AS, but that's about it. Or BR can even partner with B6. I think SQ partners with both of them..
#58
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 352
Just some random thoughts.. Is it likely that BR partners more extensively with other carriers in the NA? Seems like UA/AC are not very keen. I always feel that partnering with AS would work well with BR. Don't know if it is BR who is unwilling or AS... For now you can purchase tickets to secondary NA cites with connections to AS, but that's about it. Or BR can even partner with B6. I think SQ partners with both of them..
Also, quite clearly UA and BR are very much competitors. UA is the only US carrier with their own metal to TPE.
This is much like UA and SQ.