Eva de-icing incident at YYZ
Dec 6, 2017, 1:56 am
#17
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Nowadays. In the last couple years, there has been a massive hiring frenzy of expats. However, most expats leave after their bond is up because the pay/benefits/culture(immense pressure not to screw up from managers) is not as good compared to US/European carriers and EVA's upgrade system for Captain counts expat experience years at 1 year=0.5 years while locals have 1-to-1 for captain seat upgrade.
Initial training for expats also receives a multitude of complaints. They claim it is too rigorous. EVA has 19 flight sim sessions after they hire you before they will let you move to the line.
There are also stories of harsh punishments handed down from their TRB i.e. Captains being demoted for a go-around initiated when the FO was flying etc.
EVA's TRBs are brutal, they will punish you for any small thing out of line from the SOP.
Initial training for expats also receives a multitude of complaints. They claim it is too rigorous. EVA has 19 flight sim sessions after they hire you before they will let you move to the line.
There are also stories of harsh punishments handed down from their TRB i.e. Captains being demoted for a go-around initiated when the FO was flying etc.
EVA's TRBs are brutal, they will punish you for any small thing out of line from the SOP.
Dec 6, 2017, 4:27 am
#18
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Bay Area
Programs: UA 1k now; AA (no status); HY Diamond; SPG Platinum
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Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly. Do you mean back in the day? Yes, back in the day EVA had a bunch of expat pilots, especially after 9/11. Are you saying there are a lot of expat pilots these days, or were you referring to back in the day?
I've always held BR above CI, etc because of English proficiency. It doesn't appear that BR pilots have a solid understanding of the English language anymore.
I've always held BR above CI, etc because of English proficiency. It doesn't appear that BR pilots have a solid understanding of the English language anymore.
I dont think English is the problem. I am more worried that the pilot is more concerned about hitting the pole may cause his job. He keep on saying he really didn’t feel that he hit anything. What is more troubling is that they didn’t even realize that they are off centerline and keep on going to the right.
that is what amazes me.
Dec 6, 2017, 4:53 am
#19
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Dec 6, 2017, 10:20 am
#20
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
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i disagree. While the cockpit crew english is not native fluent, it’s actually better than quiet a bit of foreign crew. Especially comparing to Chinese, Korean and Japanese counter part.
I dont think English is the problem. I am more worried that the pilot is more concerned about hitting the pole may cause his job. He keep on saying he really didn’t feel that he hit anything. What is more troubling is that they didn’t even realize that they are off centerline and keep on going to the right.
that is what amazes me.
I dont think English is the problem. I am more worried that the pilot is more concerned about hitting the pole may cause his job. He keep on saying he really didn’t feel that he hit anything. What is more troubling is that they didn’t even realize that they are off centerline and keep on going to the right.
that is what amazes me.
Dec 6, 2017, 5:04 pm
#22
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Poor guy. He must have been very stressed because of such a bad mistake.
Interesting insight...
When they first started, they seemed to hire expat captains and have their own trained people as FOs. Are they hiring expat FOs because they cannot train enough on their own? Or, their captains are moving to other carriers fast, they are promoting the internal FOs and are filling the vacancies that way?
The English is not that bad. That did get me thinking. Before, they students would go to western flight schools. Now they are starting their own training school in the US and I guess there would be less "integration" with non-Chinese speakers.
When UA had channel 9, it was amazing to listen and figure out how some of the non-English-native-speaking ATC and non-English-native-speaking pilots can understand each other
Furthermore, it was scary to hear the mix of English and Chinese and Imperial/Metric systems in Chinese air space.
Interesting insight...
When they first started, they seemed to hire expat captains and have their own trained people as FOs. Are they hiring expat FOs because they cannot train enough on their own? Or, their captains are moving to other carriers fast, they are promoting the internal FOs and are filling the vacancies that way?
The English is not that bad. That did get me thinking. Before, they students would go to western flight schools. Now they are starting their own training school in the US and I guess there would be less "integration" with non-Chinese speakers.
When UA had channel 9, it was amazing to listen and figure out how some of the non-English-native-speaking ATC and non-English-native-speaking pilots can understand each other
Furthermore, it was scary to hear the mix of English and Chinese and Imperial/Metric systems in Chinese air space.
Dec 6, 2017, 5:29 pm
#23
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: SFO
Programs: BR Diamond, Dynasty Flyer Paragon, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,926
Poor guy. He must have been very stressed because of such a bad mistake.
Interesting insight...
When they first started, they seemed to hire expat captains and have their own trained people as FOs. Are they hiring expat FOs because they cannot train enough on their own? Or, their captains are moving to other carriers fast, they are promoting the internal FOs and are filling the vacancies that way?
The English is not that bad. That did get me thinking. Before, they students would go to western flight schools. Now they are starting their own training school in the US and I guess there would be less "integration" with non-Chinese speakers.
When UA had channel 9, it was amazing to listen and figure out how some of the non-English-native-speaking ATC and non-English-native-speaking pilots can understand each other Furthermore, it was scary to hear the mix of English and Chinese and Imperial/Metric systems in Chinese air space.
Interesting insight...
When they first started, they seemed to hire expat captains and have their own trained people as FOs. Are they hiring expat FOs because they cannot train enough on their own? Or, their captains are moving to other carriers fast, they are promoting the internal FOs and are filling the vacancies that way?
The English is not that bad. That did get me thinking. Before, they students would go to western flight schools. Now they are starting their own training school in the US and I guess there would be less "integration" with non-Chinese speakers.
When UA had channel 9, it was amazing to listen and figure out how some of the non-English-native-speaking ATC and non-English-native-speaking pilots can understand each other
Furthermore, it was scary to hear the mix of English and Chinese and Imperial/Metric systems in Chinese air space.Most instructors at the flight school are from the US. Only a few sent front Taiwan to monitor/report to HQ.
Dec 6, 2017, 5:29 pm
#24
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Dec 6, 2017, 8:17 pm
#25
Join Date: May 2012
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One can only hope. This was negligence. It will be interesting to know what the past incident record is for the flight deck personnel.
None. EVA has enough aircraft to cover the shortage.
Stressed out. That's an understatement. This was sloppiness and not paying attention. I have probably taken this flight 10X or more since BR started the route and the airport is near dead at this hour. The deicing zone is quiet for that flight, there are usually 2 domestics that leave 30 minutes before, an Aero Mexico 30 minutes after and the Cathay flight an hour later. After this, no scheduled departures until 6 AM. All the pilots had to do was to pay attention to their individual aircraft and surrounding area.
The quality of English was poor. It's not as if Taiwan doesn't have a top quality educational system. It's the developed world and the Taiwan nationals I worked with or went to school with, might have had an accent, but they spoke more coherently than the pilot here. I shudder to think of the communication risks when a pilot like this flies into the NYC region where ATC has some controllers who talk like they were extras from the Sopranos.
Disappointing performance from the EVA flight deck.
Poor guy. He must have been very stressed because of such a bad mistake.
Interesting insight...
When they first started, they seemed to hire expat captains and have their own trained people as FOs. Are they hiring expat FOs because they cannot train enough on their own? Or, their captains are moving to other carriers fast, they are promoting the internal FOs and are filling the vacancies that way?
The English is not that bad. That did get me thinking. Before, they students would go to western flight schools. Now they are starting their own training school in the US and I guess there would be less "integration" with non-Chinese speakers.
When UA had channel 9, it was amazing to listen and figure out how some of the non-English-native-speaking ATC and non-English-native-speaking pilots can understand each other Furthermore, it was scary to hear the mix of English and Chinese and Imperial/Metric systems in Chinese air space.
Interesting insight...
When they first started, they seemed to hire expat captains and have their own trained people as FOs. Are they hiring expat FOs because they cannot train enough on their own? Or, their captains are moving to other carriers fast, they are promoting the internal FOs and are filling the vacancies that way?
The English is not that bad. That did get me thinking. Before, they students would go to western flight schools. Now they are starting their own training school in the US and I guess there would be less "integration" with non-Chinese speakers.
When UA had channel 9, it was amazing to listen and figure out how some of the non-English-native-speaking ATC and non-English-native-speaking pilots can understand each other
Furthermore, it was scary to hear the mix of English and Chinese and Imperial/Metric systems in Chinese air space.The quality of English was poor. It's not as if Taiwan doesn't have a top quality educational system. It's the developed world and the Taiwan nationals I worked with or went to school with, might have had an accent, but they spoke more coherently than the pilot here. I shudder to think of the communication risks when a pilot like this flies into the NYC region where ATC has some controllers who talk like they were extras from the Sopranos.
Disappointing performance from the EVA flight deck.
Dec 6, 2017, 8:31 pm
#26
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Stressed out. That's an understatement. This was sloppiness and not paying attention. I have probably taken this flight 10X or more since BR started the route and the airport is near dead at this hour. The deicing zone is quiet for that flight, there are usually 2 domestics that leave 30 minutes before, an Aero Mexico 30 minutes after and the Cathay flight an hour later. After this, no scheduled departures until 6 AM. All the pilots had to do was to pay attention to their individual aircraft and surrounding area.
The quality of English was poor. It's not as if Taiwan doesn't have a top quality educational system. It's the developed world and the Taiwan nationals I worked with or went to school with, might have had an accent, but they spoke more coherently than the pilot here. I shudder to think of the communication risks when a pilot like this flies into the NYC region where ATC has some controllers who talk like they were extras from the Sopranos.
Disappointing performance from the EVA flight deck.
The quality of English was poor. It's not as if Taiwan doesn't have a top quality educational system. It's the developed world and the Taiwan nationals I worked with or went to school with, might have had an accent, but they spoke more coherently than the pilot here. I shudder to think of the communication risks when a pilot like this flies into the NYC region where ATC has some controllers who talk like they were extras from the Sopranos.
Disappointing performance from the EVA flight deck.
Better never, but also better on the ground than in the air.
(Incident pictured is BA34 incident at JNB in 2013 [avherald link] for anyone interested.)
Last edited by gengar; Dec 6, 2017 at 8:37 pm
Dec 6, 2017, 10:25 pm
#27
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Totally agree on a horrible job by the pilots. Keep in mind there are normally 4-5 pilots on this route because of its length.
Dec 6, 2017, 11:50 pm
#28
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Between this and the LAX "almost hit mountain" incident, you wonder all these controls and disciplines the company has does not seem to translate into 0 incident. It is kind of scary. Are people just going through the motions instead of truly following through on things?
Dec 7, 2017, 12:25 am
#29
Join Date: Aug 2016
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Between this and the LAX "almost hit mountain" incident, you wonder all these controls and disciplines the company has does not seem to translate into 0 incident. It is kind of scary. Are people just going through the motions instead of truly following through on things?
Dec 7, 2017, 5:52 am
#30
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I should mention that I was pleasantly surprised by the BR incident with really rough turbulence. When the pilot/Captain? came on to apologize, he was clearly someone with perfect fluent English, likely an ex-pat, so perhaps you are right as usual that there are a ton of expats flying for BR.