"Kurswagen" ( Direct Coaches )
Mar 5, 2009, 10:46 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
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"Kurswagen" ( Direct Coaches )
Years ago DB published a list of 'Kurswagen', these are/were coaches usually connected to various different trains during their run but not necessarily originating or terminating at a scheduled/designated line.
For example one could book/reserve a seat in a Kurswagen 'Freiburg/Leipzig' on a train running actually Basel/Amsterdam. The Kurswagen would first travel on this train to say Karlsruhe, then being hooked onto one to Stuttgard-Nuernberg and on another one from there to Leipzig. This is just hypothesis.
Although, the question here is, does a 'Kurswagen List' exit, plus would there be one list for all Europe rail travel
This is a big order, and thanks.
For example one could book/reserve a seat in a Kurswagen 'Freiburg/Leipzig' on a train running actually Basel/Amsterdam. The Kurswagen would first travel on this train to say Karlsruhe, then being hooked onto one to Stuttgard-Nuernberg and on another one from there to Leipzig. This is just hypothesis.
Although, the question here is, does a 'Kurswagen List' exit, plus would there be one list for all Europe rail travel
This is a big order, and thanks.
Mar 5, 2009, 11:03 am
#2
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 7,560
Well, it looks like Kurswagen have gone out of fashion, at least in Germany...:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurswagen
(Shout if you need help with translation!)
The article says that they still exist in Eastern Europe. Perhaps if someone can up with a word for Kurswagen in one of the Eastern European languages then that might help you find a list using a search engine.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurswagen
(Shout if you need help with translation!)
The article says that they still exist in Eastern Europe. Perhaps if someone can up with a word for Kurswagen in one of the Eastern European languages then that might help you find a list using a search engine.
Mar 5, 2009, 11:38 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Programs: none
Posts: 140
Well, it looks like Kurswagen have gone out of fashion, at least in Germany...:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurswagen
(Shout if you need help with translation!)
The article says that they still exist in Eastern Europe. Perhaps if someone can up with a word for Kurswagen in one of the Eastern European languages then that might help you find a list using a search engine.
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurswagen
(Shout if you need help with translation!)
The article says that they still exist in Eastern Europe. Perhaps if someone can up with a word for Kurswagen in one of the Eastern European languages then that might help you find a list using a search engine.
Mar 5, 2009, 11:59 am
#4
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,589
The number of trains which divide and conjoin are few and far between these days. It is a very labour intensive process to attach and detach coaches to/from trains and you have the added problem of what to do when a train "providing" a through coach to another train arrives late - does the second train wait, and also get delayed, or, if it doesn't wait, how does the through coach get to its destination?
Examples of ones that still exist can mainly be found in Eastern Europe - e.g. overnight trains to Russia.
Examples of ones that still exist can mainly be found in Eastern Europe - e.g. overnight trains to Russia.
Mar 5, 2009, 12:01 pm
#5
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,589
The number of trains which divide and conjoin are few and far between these days. It is a very labour intensive process to attach and detach coaches to/from trains and you have the added problem of what to do when a train "providing" a through coach to another train arrives late - does the second train wait, and also get delayed, or, if it doesn't wait, how does the through coach get to its destination?
Examples of ones that still exist can mainly be found in Eastern Europe - e.g. overnight trains to Russia.
Additionally, most long-distance trains are now self-contained units - ICE, Thalys, Eurostar etc - and you just can't add a coach at will.
Examples of ones that still exist can mainly be found in Eastern Europe - e.g. overnight trains to Russia.
Additionally, most long-distance trains are now self-contained units - ICE, Thalys, Eurostar etc - and you just can't add a coach at will.
Mar 5, 2009, 4:55 pm
#6
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, US
Posts: 2,229
You will still find these on overnight trains that branch off to various destinations, such as from Munich to Zagreb/Bucharest etc.
In the case of the Tren hotel between Barcelona and Milano and Barcelona and Zurich, those "2" trains operated combined as far as Lyon Part Dieu, where they were split. In that case, it involved multiple cars, rather than just one.
In the case of the Tren hotel between Barcelona and Milano and Barcelona and Zurich, those "2" trains operated combined as far as Lyon Part Dieu, where they were split. In that case, it involved multiple cars, rather than just one.
Mar 10, 2009, 4:47 am
#7
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BRU
Programs: LH SEN, SN Gold, Eurostar Carte Blanche, BA, QF, AF
Posts: 6,856
The number of trains which divide and conjoin are few and far between these days. It is a very labour intensive process to attach and detach coaches to/from trains and you have the added problem of what to do when a train "providing" a through coach to another train arrives late - does the second train wait, and also get delayed, or, if it doesn't wait, how does the through coach get to its destination?
Examples of ones that still exist can mainly be found in Eastern Europe - e.g. overnight trains to Russia.
Additionally, most long-distance trains are now self-contained units - ICE, Thalys, Eurostar etc - and you just can't add a coach at will.
Examples of ones that still exist can mainly be found in Eastern Europe - e.g. overnight trains to Russia.
Additionally, most long-distance trains are now self-contained units - ICE, Thalys, Eurostar etc - and you just can't add a coach at will.
Mar 10, 2009, 8:43 am
#8
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 7,560
What the last two posters describe is a concept that is, apparently, known as Flügelzug ("winged train") rather than Kurswagen - according to the Wikipedia article mentioned earlier. A Flügelzug is a train that splits in half. A Kurswagen is a coach that gets hooked onto different trains in the course of its journey. Back in the good old D-Zug days you would often get trains with coaches to half a dozen different destinations, enabling passengers to travel half-way across Europe without ever leaving their seat.
Mar 10, 2009, 8:59 am
#9
Moderator: UK and Ireland & Europe
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Biggleswade
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Ah, yes. I remember, on inter-railing trips, the combined perils of making sure the carriage you were making for was actually going where you wanted to, despite where the 'train' was headed, and making sure you get the best carriage to travel in! A train from Budapest to Prague, for example, could have Hungarian, Czech, Austrian, German and Romanian carriages. On those, you really wanted an Austrian compartment carriage, as you could pull the seats together. End up on a Romanian carriage, and you were sleeping on the floor, with squealing brakes that would wake you up every half hour.
Splitting/combining trains is quite common on routes that have congested mainlines. Commuter trains to/from London do this quite a lot - some Southern Coastway services will even split their 12-car trains into 3 portions en route...
Splitting/combining trains is quite common on routes that have congested mainlines. Commuter trains to/from London do this quite a lot - some Southern Coastway services will even split their 12-car trains into 3 portions en route...
Mar 10, 2009, 4:30 pm
#10
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 7,560
...unless you were an anorak who would choose the Romanian carriage for no other reason than the fact that s/he had never travelled in a Romanian carriage before!
Mar 13, 2009, 5:37 am
#12
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 7,560
This was in 1975, on my first-ever Interrail trip (would parents let their 17-year-olds go on Interrail trips now, I wonder?). Overnight journey from Paris to somewhere in Southern Germany. The train was called the Orient Express - it wasn't quite the original Orient Express (though it did have some Kurswagen to Istanbul), but neither, of course, was it the modern-day namesake. Of all the carriages I could have chosen I went for the Romanian one. Seats were four across in enclosed compartments, and they felt a bit like benches in an old church. Still, it was a bit of an adventure.
Mar 13, 2009, 6:11 pm
#13
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: New York
Posts: 1,257
1990s?
This was in 1975, on my first-ever Interrail trip (would parents let their 17-year-olds go on Interrail trips now, I wonder?). Overnight journey from Paris to somewhere in Southern Germany. The train was called the Orient Express - it wasn't quite the original Orient Express (though it did have some Kurswagen to Istanbul), but neither, of course, was it the modern-day namesake. Of all the carriages I could have chosen I went for the Romanian one. Seats were four across in enclosed compartments, and they felt a bit like benches in an old church. Still, it was a bit of an adventure.
This was in 1975, on my first-ever Interrail trip (would parents let their 17-year-olds go on Interrail trips now, I wonder?). Overnight journey from Paris to somewhere in Southern Germany. The train was called the Orient Express - it wasn't quite the original Orient Express (though it did have some Kurswagen to Istanbul), but neither, of course, was it the modern-day namesake. Of all the carriages I could have chosen I went for the Romanian one. Seats were four across in enclosed compartments, and they felt a bit like benches in an old church. Still, it was a bit of an adventure.
Mar 14, 2009, 1:23 am
#14
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 7,560
Modern-day namesake
There is something called the "Venice-Simplon Orient Express" which is a luxury excursion train in the style of the original Orient Express. I think anyone here in the UK who hears the word "Orient Express" will think first of "Murder on...." and then of the modern luxury train - which, although few people will actually have been on it, is quite a household name.
Mar 14, 2009, 6:18 pm
#15
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: New York
Posts: 1,257
There is something called the "Venice-Simplon Orient Express" which is a luxury excursion train in the style of the original Orient Express. I think anyone here in the UK who hears the word "Orient Express" will think first of "Murder on...." and then of the modern luxury train - which, although few people will actually have been on it, is quite a household name.