europegrad

Trenitalia completely revamped their fare scheme. MINI fares are no longer a fixed discount applied to a given advance in purchase but, indeed, a whole category for every kind of discounted fare, up to 65% off the BASE fare.

There is a "gotcha", though. For bureaucratic / administrative reasons, when Trenitalia sells a ticket that involves a connection with a train paid by regions (Regionale (R) or Regionale Veloce (RV), or another operator (Le Nord, SBB), it can't apply some discounts and may not offer the MINI fare.

I'll give you an example of a simulation I just did: Vernazza - Roma Termina 16/05. If you search for this sector, you'll find an option with Regionale up to La Spezia then Eurostar from La Spezia to Rome (there are other combinations). Quoting the whole sector gives you only a € 51,00 fare. However, you if "break" the search into 2 separate tickets (Vernazza-La Spezia and La Spezia-Roma), you can buy, for the same set of trains departing/arriving at the same time, La Spezia - Roma on the MINI fare for € 28,00 - and then you add the € 2,10 for the regional train Vernazza - La Spezia

The ultra-savvy / rail-geeks can find even lower fares in some new loopholes, like buying a Roma - Salerno ticket instead of a Roma - Napoli (where you actually want to disembark) on the same train, because it is cheaper with a MINI fare not offered only on the route to Napoli.

Would you spend time checking for beat-the-system-legally fares? Do you think is it work to spend 30-60min to save € 100 or more for a family? Would you start searching more or don't you have patience for that?

Personally, I like very much these more complex fare schemes because I'm on the savvy/geek side and can take advantage of lower fares while lazy people turning up at the counter 10min before departure will subsidize my dirty-cheap fares. On a non-personal tone, I also like the move because it will allow Trenitalia to become closer to breaking even, financially, avoiding the needs for subsidies for general operations the Italian government can't afford.

There are some complaints on the Italian Railway forum, some people don't get over the fact rail travel will more and more resemble air travel in some aspects - variable pricing being one of them. Some journalists every once in a while complain about "good old days" in which prices were printed for one year and everybody knew them, no discounts for advance purchase and a "fair" distance-based ticketing.

jbalmuth

I wonder whether there's any downside to buying two separate tickets vs. one "through" ticket. For example, if the Vernazza to LaSpezia regionale train is significantly delayed, causing you to miss the LaSpezia to Rome Eurostar, is there anything that would/could/should happen in LaSpezia to help the inconvenienced passenger with the "through" ticket that will be not offered to the holder of separate tickets? We all know about the benefits of through tickets on certain airlines (due to the frequency of irregular ops), and the serious risks involved in booking separate tickets, or connections on LCCs that specifically do not guarantee connections....but I've never risked booking an advance rail ticket in Italy, so have no experience with how they deal with plans gone awry.

europegrad

It wouldn't matter anyway, in the case of trains. There is no particular guarantee of penalty waivers in case of delayed-and-missed connections. If you buy "one" ticket, it will comprise 2 different tickets for each segment anyway, unnamed.

Sometimes staff is accommodating of problems caused by delayed connections, sometimes they don't - it is your problem you didn't make it in time to the next connecting station.

pacer142

Yet another situation where the UK often gets the best deal these days, while mainland Europe continues to make its trains have all the disadvantages of airline fares. The add-on for a local journey to a long-distance one is very often Ł0.00 (yes, you get the local journey free).

This is because of how the UK fares system works - mostly, a small local station has a set of local fares, and takes any longer-distance fares from a nearby hub without any add-on. So, for instance, my local station Bletchley has its own fares to stations on the Euston-Northampton line, the Bedford-Bletchley line and a few others beyond that, but takes the fares from Milton Keynes Central for anything[1] else.

It isn't always that simple because of quotas, but it very often is...

[1] This can be good and bad. It also applies where you're travelling *away* from MKC, so while Bletchley-Euston is (mostly[2]) slightly cheaper than Milton Keynes-Euston, Bletchley-Slough via London is the same price as MKC-Slough via London.

[2] Off-peak it's the same because of heavy-discount fares from MKC.

You keep saying this, and I find it offensive.

"People who don't have time to spend hours trawling the Internet for a cheap fare" might be better than "lazy" in your future posts, I suggest. There is a valid argument that such people should pay more for the flexibility, and indeed mostly in the UK they do, though clearly not to the level you've suggested they should in other threads; that is for sensible debate. But to call someone lazy because they have other more important things to spend their time on than working out esoteric fares structures is IMO very narrow-minded.

Even where there exists no through ticket? That's appalling.

Fortunately, CIV protection mandates accommodation on the next available train for international journeys within Europe in the event of a missed connection on a through journey, however.

Neil

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Mizter T

Personally, I think railway ticketing should be made as complicated and inscrutable as possible - I'll only count it as a success when all the passengers on-board are savvy/geek types, all slapping themselves on the back and congratulating each other on having been able to actually buy a ticket.

jbalmuth

For those of us for who don't know what CIV stands for, more information about it and its mandated accommodation would be very welcome indeed. TIA!

pacer142

Conditions Internationales de Vente - literally "international conditions of sale". But there is more info here, which seems to give an idea about it. The idea, though, is that if you miss a connection while making an international journey in Europe due to a delayed train you have to be re-accommodated.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIV_(rail_travel)

It nominally only specifies this for the destination on your ticket (singular) but in practice that means ticket*s* making up the international journey concerned, largely because you normally can't do it on only one ticket.

Interestingly, from a bit of reading around, it seems like Trenitalia might not be a signatory to CIV/COTIF (unlike pretty much every other EU country's railway systems). Interesting.

http://www.cit-rail.org/index.php?id=254&L=2

Neil

Mizter T

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion - the following is in the footnotes of that document...

europegrad

I am not using the "lazy" in a derogatory way, although I recognize the comparison might have enticed that and, if so, my apologies.

What I want to say is in the context of costumer-decision process. Unwillingness (for whatever reason) to spend time searching for the better deal coupled with loss of price referential open vast opportunities for price discrimination (again, not in the negative way, but in the sense of charging more from whom you can extract more money, like airlines have been doing for 30 years with last-minute business travelers who pay 3x the price of their seat neighbors who bought 3 month in advance for the same crowded, cramped seat).

pacer142

Accepted.

True, though the key difference is that a good many rail passengers have the option to choose to do the journey by car instead, which skews things a bit. Air largely has no realistic competition once you move away from very short European flights.

My example: When I travel domestically in the UK, I travel at the time I want to. I generally will not substantially change journey times to get a cheaper fare, nor will I forsake flexibility for a cheaper fare. If the walk-up fare for my journey is unacceptably high (e.g. all Anytime tickets for long-distance journeys), I will drive rather than pay the high fares or change my time of travel.

This isn't *quite* what yield management is supposed to achieve; to some extent it only works properly when everybody does it. And car travel isn't yield-managed - it costs roughly the same (though journey times vary and sitting in traffic costs a *little* extra in fuel) whenever you do it.

Neil

blondegeek

They certainly look like they're worth it!

I'm trying to price out a one-way in Comfort class Venice-Rome, and the MINI fare "seems" to save me $80 USD!

However, I'm utterly confused by the wording on the Trenitalia web site - I've traveled on many different rails but always purchased through RailEurope. Do I want the Self Service option rather than a paper ticket? What about the "Mandatory Reservation"? Sorry if this isn't the right place to post this thread, but thought I'd ask the gurus.

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europegrad

If possible, go for a ticketless option. If not, go for SelfService, as Trenitalia doesn't ship paper tickets outside Italy.

With Self Service option, you go to a national ticket machine, put the code of the ticket and it will print your tickets on spot - takes 1 min. at most, with English menus available

Mandatory reservation means your ticket will be train-specific, like with a fixed day, time and seat. Don't worry about it: if a reservation is possible, you'll be able to do it in the process of booking and paying online.