Dad's European Trip - June 2009
Nov 21, 2008, 3:51 pm
#1
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Dad's European Trip - June 2009
I'm trying to organise a trip for Dad and step-mum for June 2009. I've already got their (award) plane tickets organised. They've never been to Europe before and of getting to a 'senior' age, plus potential language problems, I'm thinking whether to just book them an organised tour or doing it independently (in which case me and/or my brother will go with them).
The entire trip is about 20 days.
Q1 - Organised Tour vs Independent Travel
The main advantage I see with a tour is they don't have to queue (as much) at the big tourist places. The Vatican is famous for its queues...
Regarding the itinerary, here's what I'm thinking, and would appreciate your comments. Their interests are mainly museums, sights and experience the main tourist attractions that you see and hear. I don't think they'll go clubbing...
If done independently, it's likely they'll go by train. Starting point is London, and 'must' visit places are Paris, Rome, somewhere in Switzerland and Germany. (They don't really know exactly where.)
6 June - Paris
I'm thinking of a quick stop at Nice/Monte Carlo or Pisa/Florence en route to Rome
11 June - Rome (must be in Rome from 11 June to 15 June)
16 June - Venice (open to somewhere else)
18 June - Zurich
20 June - Munich (prefer Berlin, but it may be too far with too little time)
22 June - Amsterdam
23 June - London
25 June - Leave London
Q2 - This looks rather rushed. Any suggestions on changing it around? Would prefer to spend another day or two in London.
Q3 - He also wants to see a bit of Eastern Europe. While he has a side-trip to Krakow booked (ex London), is there anywhere else we can squeeze in (or trade) from the route above? I'm thinking Prague.
Appreciate your help and expertise.
The entire trip is about 20 days.
Q1 - Organised Tour vs Independent Travel
The main advantage I see with a tour is they don't have to queue (as much) at the big tourist places. The Vatican is famous for its queues...
Regarding the itinerary, here's what I'm thinking, and would appreciate your comments. Their interests are mainly museums, sights and experience the main tourist attractions that you see and hear. I don't think they'll go clubbing...
If done independently, it's likely they'll go by train. Starting point is London, and 'must' visit places are Paris, Rome, somewhere in Switzerland and Germany. (They don't really know exactly where.)
6 June - Paris
I'm thinking of a quick stop at Nice/Monte Carlo or Pisa/Florence en route to Rome
11 June - Rome (must be in Rome from 11 June to 15 June)
16 June - Venice (open to somewhere else)
18 June - Zurich
20 June - Munich (prefer Berlin, but it may be too far with too little time)
22 June - Amsterdam
23 June - London
25 June - Leave London
Q2 - This looks rather rushed. Any suggestions on changing it around? Would prefer to spend another day or two in London.
Q3 - He also wants to see a bit of Eastern Europe. While he has a side-trip to Krakow booked (ex London), is there anywhere else we can squeeze in (or trade) from the route above? I'm thinking Prague.
Appreciate your help and expertise.
Nov 21, 2008, 4:01 pm
#2
Join Date: Aug 2002
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These places can all warrant a longer visit than proposed and one or two days in place is tiring if you are not well tuned into the various places. Perhaps remove Zurich, Munich and Amsterdam and go from Venice to Prague then a cheap flight to London.
Nov 22, 2008, 4:59 am
#3
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They're going to go from London to Krakow as a side trip? That seems a bit odd (backtracking). That's going to take at least 2 days (or one very long day).
One day in Amsterdam doesn't get you much - there is so much to see. Though I did manage to visit 4 small museums in one day.
I love Krakow and Prague - you could spend an entire day at Prague Castle and still not see all there is to see there. Krakow has a beautiful castle too.
If the folks have not been to Europe before and are not the adventuresome sort, an organized tour might be the best bet. Then they don't have to worry about how to figure out how to use the local public transportation and mess with transferring luggage and all that. I find that my mom prefers the organized tours - she doesn't deal with uncertainty very well. Me, I'm not a big organized tour fan, but I recognize their merits in certain cases.
I do agree that you are trying to cover too much in a short time. I guess the thing to consider when choosing the cities to visit is what is important to your parents. I agree with gaelflyer and leave out Munich and Zurich and Amsterdam. They could even got from Venice to Prague to Krakow to London.
One day in Amsterdam doesn't get you much - there is so much to see. Though I did manage to visit 4 small museums in one day.
I love Krakow and Prague - you could spend an entire day at Prague Castle and still not see all there is to see there. Krakow has a beautiful castle too.
If the folks have not been to Europe before and are not the adventuresome sort, an organized tour might be the best bet. Then they don't have to worry about how to figure out how to use the local public transportation and mess with transferring luggage and all that. I find that my mom prefers the organized tours - she doesn't deal with uncertainty very well. Me, I'm not a big organized tour fan, but I recognize their merits in certain cases.
I do agree that you are trying to cover too much in a short time. I guess the thing to consider when choosing the cities to visit is what is important to your parents. I agree with gaelflyer and leave out Munich and Zurich and Amsterdam. They could even got from Venice to Prague to Krakow to London.
Nov 22, 2008, 5:24 am
#4
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 7,560
I'm a bit confused about this Krakow trip too. Arrive London 23 June, leave London 25 June... are you saying they are going to Krakow on 24 June, just for the day?
As someone else has said, this would be a VERY long day. And if they're arriving in London the day before and leaving the day after then the whole thing is going to be extremely tiring - and they're not leaving themselves any leeway should things go wrong.
From what airport (and on which airline) are they planning to fly to Krakow?
As for the rest... you are allowing a reasonable amount of time for Paris and Rome. A quick stop in Pisa on the way would be do-able, but Florence can't be done in a day.
The last few days of the trip are too rushed. I'd skip at least one of Zurich, Munich or Amsterdam - not because they're not worth seeing but because packing them into such a short time is too much.
And I'd definitely think again about that mad dash from London to Krakow!
As someone else has said, this would be a VERY long day. And if they're arriving in London the day before and leaving the day after then the whole thing is going to be extremely tiring - and they're not leaving themselves any leeway should things go wrong.
From what airport (and on which airline) are they planning to fly to Krakow?
As for the rest... you are allowing a reasonable amount of time for Paris and Rome. A quick stop in Pisa on the way would be do-able, but Florence can't be done in a day.
The last few days of the trip are too rushed. I'd skip at least one of Zurich, Munich or Amsterdam - not because they're not worth seeing but because packing them into such a short time is too much.
And I'd definitely think again about that mad dash from London to Krakow!
Nov 22, 2008, 6:10 am
#5
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A tour has some other advantages - no map reading and navigating, baggage is carried from your bus to your hotel room and back, lots of meals are included without having to find a place and decipher menus, the tour guide explains things and tell you where to find ATMs/bathrooms/??.
But you miss the fun of discovering for yourself, lingering longer at interesting things and departing sooner on the less interesting things. And on and on.
I'm a senior, and tend to switch back and forth between packages and on my own. Often a package for new and more foreign countries (Asian/Middle East), but on my own for repeat visits or less foreign countries (Hungary most recently). I'm lots more appreciative of tour guides after I've gotten myself lost a few times and had problems finding food. And I appreciate the joys of independent travel after being tired of being led around.
Unless your dad and step-mom are super-independent and really like figuring out stuff for themselves, I'd suggest a tour for this first trip. At least 1/2 of it, or maybe all but a couple independent days. Then for their next trip they can know better which they prefer.
Romelle
You don't mention health, hearing, vision, mobility, dietary issues, and other limiting factors? Also, have they done lots of other traveling? US and/or other countries?
Going from one country to another pretty much fills a day. Check out of hotel, get to train station or airport, move body, get to new hotel and check in. Even from point to point in the same country it is hard to make a move in less than 1/2 a day. On the other hand, with train travel you do get the scenery during the move.
But you miss the fun of discovering for yourself, lingering longer at interesting things and departing sooner on the less interesting things. And on and on.
I'm a senior, and tend to switch back and forth between packages and on my own. Often a package for new and more foreign countries (Asian/Middle East), but on my own for repeat visits or less foreign countries (Hungary most recently). I'm lots more appreciative of tour guides after I've gotten myself lost a few times and had problems finding food. And I appreciate the joys of independent travel after being tired of being led around.
Unless your dad and step-mom are super-independent and really like figuring out stuff for themselves, I'd suggest a tour for this first trip. At least 1/2 of it, or maybe all but a couple independent days. Then for their next trip they can know better which they prefer.
Romelle
You don't mention health, hearing, vision, mobility, dietary issues, and other limiting factors? Also, have they done lots of other traveling? US and/or other countries?
Going from one country to another pretty much fills a day. Check out of hotel, get to train station or airport, move body, get to new hotel and check in. Even from point to point in the same country it is hard to make a move in less than 1/2 a day. On the other hand, with train travel you do get the scenery during the move.
Nov 22, 2008, 1:21 pm
#6
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Thanks for the input so far. Just some points of clairifications.
The trip to Krakow is 30 May to 5 June and is LGW-KRK-LGW on BA, so before the trip I'm planning. While I'd have preferred cutting down on transitting London, this award ticket just can't allow it due to the lack of OneWorld options from KRK. Once they returned from Krakow, they'll start this European trip.
Thankfully, they don't have any serious limiting health factors, and they're certainly used to walking long distances each day. While they've done a bit of travel before, they usually have work or family to meet them at the other end - something they won't have this time. That's why I think they either go on an organised tour or have me and/or my brother joining them.
The stop at Amsterdam is really just a transit point from Germany to London. What I really want them to see is a windmill and their rural areas (probably too late for the tulip season), and something they can hopefully see on the train (or through a quick stop). Going from Germany to London in one day by train will be a long day if at all possible.
Are there easy luggage storage options at the train stations at Pisa, Nice, Zurich or Amsterdam?
The trip to Krakow is 30 May to 5 June and is LGW-KRK-LGW on BA, so before the trip I'm planning. While I'd have preferred cutting down on transitting London, this award ticket just can't allow it due to the lack of OneWorld options from KRK. Once they returned from Krakow, they'll start this European trip.
Thankfully, they don't have any serious limiting health factors, and they're certainly used to walking long distances each day. While they've done a bit of travel before, they usually have work or family to meet them at the other end - something they won't have this time. That's why I think they either go on an organised tour or have me and/or my brother joining them.
The stop at Amsterdam is really just a transit point from Germany to London. What I really want them to see is a windmill and their rural areas (probably too late for the tulip season), and something they can hopefully see on the train (or through a quick stop). Going from Germany to London in one day by train will be a long day if at all possible.
Are there easy luggage storage options at the train stations at Pisa, Nice, Zurich or Amsterdam?
Nov 22, 2008, 2:53 pm
#7
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 7,560
Luggage storage at stations: This is the norm rather than the exception in most of Europe. I don't have any personal experience of storing baggage at Pisa, Nice or Zurich; Amsterdam Central Station has a large array of lockers.
If your family want to see lots of windmills there is a place called Kinderdijk near Rotterdam - which is quite impressive. I don't know how you get there by public transport or whether there are organised tours - the one time I went there was on a bicycle.
If they just want to see one windmill I can recommend Leiden, just south of Amsterdam - where there is a windmill in easy walking distance of the station.
How are your family getting back to London from Amsterdam - Eurostar from Brussels or overnight ferry from Hoek van Holland? The latter is quite a good way to travel as it saves a day.
If your family want to see lots of windmills there is a place called Kinderdijk near Rotterdam - which is quite impressive. I don't know how you get there by public transport or whether there are organised tours - the one time I went there was on a bicycle.
If they just want to see one windmill I can recommend Leiden, just south of Amsterdam - where there is a windmill in easy walking distance of the station.
How are your family getting back to London from Amsterdam - Eurostar from Brussels or overnight ferry from Hoek van Holland? The latter is quite a good way to travel as it saves a day.
Nov 22, 2008, 3:54 pm
#8
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how old, and how active are these old people? i'm 71, have friends in mid 70's, and trips of this type are not a problem. i am active. i play squash 3x a week.
NOW, between each stop, write the words "and a day of travel"
you got 8 days of travel in there, and with krakow, you get 10. pack and unpack, hauling luggage, tears up old people.
do the big 4 and forget the rest. if you put them in hotels in center city, there is no problem for an independent person to do the trip without travel guides. english is the language of those cities. get a couple food guides, and a couple of michelin green guides and get on the streets. all those cities (rome,paris, venice,london) are walking cities or have great public transport. they are great for old people.
the biggest problem is that those idiots in london drive on the wrong side of the road. at least there are arrows on the sidewalks indicating the direction of sudden death.
for further comments, contact me.
NOW, between each stop, write the words "and a day of travel"
you got 8 days of travel in there, and with krakow, you get 10. pack and unpack, hauling luggage, tears up old people.
do the big 4 and forget the rest. if you put them in hotels in center city, there is no problem for an independent person to do the trip without travel guides. english is the language of those cities. get a couple food guides, and a couple of michelin green guides and get on the streets. all those cities (rome,paris, venice,london) are walking cities or have great public transport. they are great for old people.
the biggest problem is that those idiots in london drive on the wrong side of the road. at least there are arrows on the sidewalks indicating the direction of sudden death.
for further comments, contact me.
Nov 24, 2008, 2:13 pm
#9
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My folks aren't that senior - Dad will be 64 and step-mum is younger than him.
Good idea about inserting a 'travel day' in between the stops. I thought something like that may be necessary but I haven't done it as I was (or still am) deciding between an organised tour or independent travel. I'm leaning towards independent travel. While Dad is a 'hands-off' person, I think I can organise it better and cheaper. I also have lots of Hilton points (plus roughly a week's worth of Starwood points, and a handful of various other hotel chains) I can burn to save on accommodation.
I think the route will be limited to:
London - Paris (stop) - Pisa (transit, just to see the tower) - Rome (stop) - Venice (a small stop and can drop if required) - Zurich (probably just a 2-day stop - or somewhere in Switzerland, Dad has a thing for it, not sure why) - Munich or Berlin (stop) - Amesterdam or Rotterdam (transit, quick stop) - London
I haven't thought about getting back from the Netherlands to London yet. My thinking was to get a train ticket (Eurail) so it may be connecting to the Eurostar. As I understand it, Eurail tickets don't include the Eurostar, getting the ferry instead will not be a bad idea, thanks.
P.S. In our case, the people driving on the 'wrong' side of the road will be the folks in Europe.
Good idea about inserting a 'travel day' in between the stops. I thought something like that may be necessary but I haven't done it as I was (or still am) deciding between an organised tour or independent travel. I'm leaning towards independent travel. While Dad is a 'hands-off' person, I think I can organise it better and cheaper. I also have lots of Hilton points (plus roughly a week's worth of Starwood points, and a handful of various other hotel chains) I can burn to save on accommodation.
I think the route will be limited to:
London - Paris (stop) - Pisa (transit, just to see the tower) - Rome (stop) - Venice (a small stop and can drop if required) - Zurich (probably just a 2-day stop - or somewhere in Switzerland, Dad has a thing for it, not sure why) - Munich or Berlin (stop) - Amesterdam or Rotterdam (transit, quick stop) - London
I haven't thought about getting back from the Netherlands to London yet. My thinking was to get a train ticket (Eurail) so it may be connecting to the Eurostar. As I understand it, Eurail tickets don't include the Eurostar, getting the ferry instead will not be a bad idea, thanks.
P.S. In our case, the people driving on the 'wrong' side of the road will be the folks in Europe.
Last edited by Leumas; Nov 24, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Nov 24, 2008, 7:21 pm
#10
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There are some great "walking tours" in the various guide books for different cities. Rick Steves has them, and Lonely Planet, and I'm sure others. They work well for independent travel. Also those double decker bus tours and others of the hop-on-hop-off nature.
Your friendly local library probably has a bunch of travel guides or can order them in for you. I sometimes even take a library one with me. Alternatively, if you buy them, you can razor blade the spine and just take relevant chunks and save on weight.
Romelle
Your friendly local library probably has a bunch of travel guides or can order them in for you. I sometimes even take a library one with me. Alternatively, if you buy them, you can razor blade the spine and just take relevant chunks and save on weight.
Romelle