The opinion parts. I regularly visit both Amsterdam and New York, and always find the latter dirtier, although in a different way. I find the dirt in Amsterdam concentrated (in terms of both space and time), but the dirt in New York pervasive.

As someone who has worked irregular hours around Amsterdam, often staying centrally, I've seen the very effective efforts to clean up the town centre overnight.

The English probably did, it's been sung (with accompanying hand gestures) in British school playgrounds and around camp fires from the very early 80s.

When in Rome...
 

OP: If you don't like Amsterdam please don't go there. I can't believe how ardent in ccomplaining about the cleanliness of what is one of the top tourist traps in Europe. And not just tourists - we're talking PARTYING tourists, not the Louvre. My guess is you haven't really been to Amsterdam, you just walked around Damrak on a Satuday night or Sunday morning during the summer (high tourist season). As local residents posted upthread, that is hardly representative.

I find your rant ignorant! :td: Your profile says you're from Sacramanto (California's armpit:rolleyes:) yet you have the odacity to complain... HA!

You obviously haven't been to NYC much. I'm not talking about 5th Ave or Central Park West; try the Village on a weekend, the Bowery, Chinatown area and the like. Compare THAT to Amsterdam.

A typical euphemism from ignorant folk. :rolleyes: Amsterdam does not have a drug "culture". Marijuana is illegal but tolerated if posessed in small amounts or consumed. That's it. It's part of Amsterdam's tolerant approach, as opposed to the non-sense "you-can-die-in-Irak-at-18-but-can't-drink-until-21" approach.

No. Ignorant people who think they have the right to impose their values everywhere else do, but the Dutch gov't obviously does not. It really isn't a problem per se. You don't see people becoming violent and causing all sorts of problems after they smoked marijuana. (Alcohol does that though, and that's ubiquitously tolerated.) Furthermore, it brings in serious cash from tourists.

Well, a difference of opinion does not necessarily constitute right or wrong, especially versed in 'truth'. I have been here in AMS for a week now, and often out until 4 or 5am. I have not seen the overnight cleanup efforts; many areas don't seem to get cleaned....ever. Take a walk along the street that runs in front of the Rijksmuseum and take a look at the gardens there. Trashed.

Not once have I seen a local bend over to pick up a piece of trash, and as a matter of fact, have seen locals throwing garbage into the canals, and just now, a local cabdriver throwing what was left of his lunch into the street.

As to the PC/agenda issue, I am simply commenting on the social decisions and their implications. Certainly it must cost a fortune to support legalized prostitution (with the required health certifications, testing, standards, etc.). The same must go for the drug culture in regards to enforcement, licensing, etc; I must admit to seeing very very few homeless people here nor really any junkies. How much of the city budget is devoted to those enterprises as opposed to basic sanitation?

Anyway, the emphasis needs to be on pushing brooms, not agendas. I would think that if AMS were to be more focused on cleanliness, the tourism dividend would be great, as opposed to simply ignoring the touristy areas and then blaming the tourists for the city's condition.

please read here
 

ok folks, I'd like to see you all maintain a civil tone even if you are provoked or feel so. It just takes practice and patience. Those who cannot manage it are still reasonably welcome if they promptly comply with requests to edit posts.
Some posts are far short of personal attacks, as are some replies - so everybody please look wha content-less messages can be edited :) please ... stay civil :)

regards

chrissxb
moderator
europe forum

That's for sure. Amsterdam is not so bad, but I was surprised to find Rome relatively trashy on a visit in June and Naples was bad beyond belief.

On the other hand, Athens wasn't so bad, just hot, dusty and overrun with tourists from large cruise ships that disgorged their passengers in the morning and collected them back at night.

The fact that prostitution is legal and soft drugs are tolerated means that businesses and people that are active in these areas actually pay taxes. Furthermore, we do not need to spend huge amounts of money on the so-called "war on drugs".

1) I have been in AMS for a week now. As my OP stated, I have enjoyed it, aside from the trash/cleanliness. I try to stay away from the Dam just because of the condition of it, but practitality dictates otherwise.

2) I lived in NYC twice, for a total of 3 years. I have some credibility on that matter.

3) The other statments do not warrant a response.

AMS isn't the cleanest, but it is far from the filthiest!

No, but your experience differs so wildly to mine, that I believe you are exaggerating in order to push your agenda. Rather like:

PC? Oh, please. PC is a term used by those who have had their prejudices exposed.

Legalised prostitution costs money but brings in tax revenue.

There is no 'drug culture' in the Netherlands - decriminalisation doesn't mean any more than the fact that usage is tolerated. The approach to harder drugs has proven very effective, and costs rather less than failed "lock 'em up" or forced rehab approaches.

The emphasis needs to be on keeping the city running for its citizens, in the way they see fit. Tourism is quite important to Amsterdam, but there's a lot more to the city than that.

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The OP has formed his harsh opinion after staying in AMS for a whole week? In the tourist areas? In mid-summer?

Amsterdam has a population of 750,000, yet over 3.5 million foreign visitors inundate a very small area of the city each summer.

While numerous businesses thrive because of the tourists, I know many Amsterdam residents who loathe the army of partying tourists and their littering habits.

Most of the city is kept very clean at all times, and most citizens feel a civic duty to pick up trash. My advice for the OP is to visit this majestic city at different times of the year, over the course of many years before making such an obviously uninformed statement.

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I'm curious now, whatever happened to the Dutch initiative of making people who wanted to claim benefits don red or green waist-coats and roam the streets where they were required to chastise those who littered and report things like dead rats and pigeons to the sanitation officials?

Or was this just in Rotterdam?

"Push my agenda"???? What does that mean? What agenda?

Exaggerating? How? Trust me when I tell you that every one of my experiences recalled here is completely accurate.

What "prejudices have been exposed"? (To be prejudiced, by definition, it to pre judge. I have done no such thing. I came here open minded, and I am leaving with an opinion, an opinion that clearly isn't what I expected. I'm wondering why you would attack that?). I didn't pre judge anything. Yet I have been attacked for pointing out that Amsterdam is really dirty.....

The only thing I've stated here is that Amsterdam is filthy. No if's and's or but's. It's pretty disgusting. Just a few minutes ago, I watched a bunch of shirtless young men urinate in a canal, (in front of a boatload of tourists, including me) while drinking beer and driving a boat. Now, if you're OK with that, then I submit that your standards are, ahem, questionable, or at the very least, different than mine.

Was the trip good? Sure. Lots of fun, lots of sights, great views, food, museums, etc. Would I return? Probably not, there are so many more worthwhile (for me) destinations in Europe and elsewhere. If you like trash all over the place, human waste, etc., then by all means go for it. I suppose I have higher standards than some (and lower than others I guess), but my tolerance to such things is low. (Oh and FWIW, I have no "moral" problems with the prostitution and drugs, sorta knew about that coming here...)

(What agenda again are you referring to???)

So I will ask again, as no one has answered my original question, except for one person who stated that Amsterdam doesn't care about it's own cleanliess in tourist areas:

Why doesn't Amsterdam give as much care and TLC to it's physical cleanliness and hygiene that most other cities do? Do they have other pressing needs to which they allocate their resources?

Darling, please relax. Your experiences are not the experiences of the others that have posted here. You may have been very unlucky this last week, for instance being at various places half an hour after a particularly dirty group left, and half an hour before the cleaning crews came.
The city of Amsterdam does care about cleaning up, and there are dozens of cleaning crews with high-tech equipment active around the clock. But on a day like today, in high season with tropical temperatures, and many thousands of locals and tourists partying on the streets, it is just impossible to immediately pick up every plastic bag.

The reason some other posters reacted a bit strongly is the fact that you continuously mention prostitution, soft drug tolerance and Dutch social policy as being the reason for the trash, all of which have very little to do with the dirtiness of the city as perceived by you.

thread closed for mod review

regards

chrissxb
moderator
europe forum