Schengen Laws
 

I am a 40 year old US citizen who plans to travel Europe this spring for several months. It is a monumental task for me beings that it will require me to leave the confines of my stable job and home but I decided now or never for these plans have been swept under the rug many years .

I understand that the Schengen rule is 90/180 meaning I will be required to leave the Schengen areas up to 90 days after my 3 months have expired inside.....but how does it work for non Schengen countries?

Say I plan to stay in France 90 days and leave for a non-Schengen area such as the UK ( London ) another 90 days before entering another non Schengen area such as Switzerland...would this be allowed ( going from one "non" EU to another after alotted time has lapsed )??

I realize there are ways of dancing around the laws but I want this to be a memorable and pleasurable journey without breaking any laws.

Your help would greatly be appreciated.

Non-Schengen countries have their own rules so it should not affect what you are saying if I understand you correctly.

The UK has it's rules...Switzerland has it's rules...then there is Schengen which really screws Americans but is easier for Europeans.

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thanks, however; there is nothing on the internet that I have been able to find that is helpful.

Yes, you are correct about your interpretation of the rules, however, unless you are a known member of an Islamic terrorist group, or you have illegal drugs in your bags, you really shouldn't worry much about it. At some airports (Paris and Rome come to mind), they rarely look at your passport and instead just wave you through if it's an American passport. While other airports (Munich, Frankfurt) are rather strict.. Then there is Amsterdam which is usually pretty lax, but not always.. Just smile and present the passport and don't volunteer the information. They probably won't even ask.
As for breaking laws, have you ever gone over the 55 mile per hour speed limit? Well, overstaying the "Schengen" policy is kind of the same thing. Unless you are REALLY over the limit, they won't do anything. The worst case I've ever seen was a girl who I knew was living in Greece and she was 2 years over the limit. She re-entered the country from outside of the Schengen Zone and they queried her because she had almost 0 stamps in her passport. She admitted to living in Greece, etc.. They gave her 30 days to leave and passed her on through.. So, I wouldn't be concerned about this..

YET AGAIN we have someone posting saying "Don't worry about the law, just break it, you are unlikely to be caught".

What sort of advice is this?

People DO get caught. And even if the chances of getting caught may be relatively small surely we shouldn't be encouraging people to do things that are illegal?

As for the original question: At the moment the UK admits visitors for up to 180 days at a time. There is talk of this being reduced to 90. I don't know what the limit is for Switzerland, but I'm sure this information will be easy to find. You should note, however, that Switzerland has signed the Schengen agreement and is due to implement it later this year.

Edited to add: You may find this thread useful over in the Europe forum:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=748263

While I agree with most earlier posters that there are a number of ways to slip into the Schengen zone unnoticed and stay for a god, long while without it being noticed, I would not take the risk myself.

Here's what I would do:

Spend 80 days in Schengen countries (not 90, because I think you should leave yourself a little bit of flexibility in case you need it)

Spend 100 days in total in any of the countries below:

United Kingdom
Ireland
Croatia
Bosnia
Montenegro
Serbia
Albania
Macedonia
Turkey
Ukraine
Belarus
Russia
Moldova
Andorra

I would also include Morocco and Tunisia (both are relatively safe and quite easy to get to from European countries) to give yourself some additional options.

Return to Schengen for another 90 days.

Fly home (or onward? ;)).

It would also be good if Schengen applied their own rules on visas correctly.

You can apply for a 6 or 12 month Schengen visa, at one of the embassies. Once the visa is received you can travel where you like in the Schengen zone, so great for those who go round a lot.

Let us take as an example Portugal, as we did, because we were going there first and so no other EU country would accept our application. You have to submit your travel arrangements for the Portugal trip, so off goes the application, the holiday bookings, the wasted day of your holiday to go down to the consulate, etc. Back comes a Schengen visa valid from the day before arrival in Portugal, expiring after a couple of weeks, one week after we were due to return home again :rolleyes:

Here in the UK (non-Schengen) there is discussion about cutting the 180 day visa time down to 90 days. All the talk in the press is about people staying here for 6 months being cut down to 3 months, still seen as a huge long visit. Not the issue at all. We have family from Russia who come for a long weekend from time to time. It is after all only 3 hours flying time away, same as to Malaga. 6 month visas (which take at least a day of your time in Russia to obtain from the UK consulate) probably allow them to come twice. If they lasted 12 months they would probably come say 3 times, just like we go over there about 3 times a year. Cut the visa down to 90 days you can only come typically once, and then it becomes just not worthwhile.

All countries with such restrictive travel are only hurting themselves in the long run...tourist dollars will not be as prolific if it becomes such a hassle.

Don't want me to come spend my money in your country? Ok...

You mean like in most countries in the world where 90 days is the rule and readmittance after that is up to the guy on the immigration desk who can refuse entry if you look funny

Moving this thread to the FT Europe forum. Thanks for your understanding.

Jouy31
TravelBuzz moderator

Hi Beatraveler. My advise. Contact the embassy of the European country that belongs to the Schengen Area and that you plan to visit first/where you enter. Get a Visa so you can stay longer than 90 days in the Schengen area. Pretty easy task.

For example you want to enter the Schengen Area in France contact the French embassy for a visa.

Note that Switzerland has passed Schengen, but not implemented it. Implementation is scheduled for 2008.

I don't believe it's all that easy at all.

Rules vary from country to country, but the general principle, as I understand it, is that visas for more than three months are only granted for specific purposes such as study, work or family reasons (i.e., to join one's spouse). Some countries will also grant long-term visa to investors, or to people of independent means who intend to settle and buy property and spend lots of money.

Here is a link to the rules for one country - Spain - which I previously posted in the other recent thread on the subject:

http://www.spainexpat.com/spain/info...rk_or_holiday/

If you have money it can probably be done... but it's quite bureaucratic and certainly not "easy".

Dividing your time between Schengen and non-Schengen is probably a better bet (and the non-Schengen list is actually quite a bit longer than the list posted previously as a number of the new EU countries such as Romania and Bulgaria are still outside Schengen)

I'll give you Romania and Bulgaria because they will not implement Schengen until 2011 (they joined the treaty at the beginning of 2007), but other than what I listed above, what countries are left outside Schengen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Agreement has a good map showing just how big the Schengen Zone is now! :eek:

Question:

I have been traveling through Europe for the last 110 days.

I will spend about 22 outside of Shengen, however my 'passport' cannot prove it.

For example, I drove into Switzerland 5 days ago and just left this morning. In both cases I was just waved through everywhere.

I fly out of Germany later this month. If I get an over zealous agent claiming I overstayed what can I do? I did keep all the hotel receipts with dates for my non-Shengen visits. Should that be enough?

Thanks.