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Balkans Trip - Help

Balkans Trip - Help

Old Jun 1, 2021, 9:31 pm
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Balkans Trip - Help

Hello all,

We are finally moving through with the long-awaited trip this summer to the Balkans. We have about a 5-6 weeks, we are flying to ATH. We are trying to be open and travel with minimal plans since with COVID things are unpredictable. We are landing in ATH, and were thinking of doing Santorini/Paros/Mykanos. Any recommendations on how many days to spend in each? We also wanted to go to Zakynthos, but not sure logistically the best way to add that with the other 3 islands.

After Greece, we are debating on Macedonia- Tirana - Montenegro- Belgrad, Sarajevo,, Dubrovnic? vs Tirana - Macedonia - Montenegro - Belgrad- Sarajevo- Dubrovnic?

Another option is going Greece to Tirana, renting a car and driving to Macedonia, Montenegro, Belgrade, Mostar and dropping the car in Sarajevo. From Sarajevo taking the train to Dubrovnik? Anything worth skipping?

We really need help with the itinerary. We are leaving in 3 weeks. It will be 2 adults and a toddler. Wife will be prego so nothing strenuous, we love sight seeing, food, history, and we are pretty easy going. We are vaccinated, toddler is very well traveled and does good in a stroller. Please help and thanks in advance!

Last edited by TravelDoorsOut; Jun 1, 2021 at 9:47 pm
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Old Jun 1, 2021, 10:56 pm
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Right off the bat I'd say that I wouldn't want to do 3 Greek islands and up to 5 Balkan countries with a toddler and a pregnant wife but that's for you to decide.

The second point I'd make is to be very mindful of where you get your car, i.e. which licence plate it'll have. I've done a few road trips in the northernmost reaches of the Balkans (Slovenia, Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia) in the last 5/10 years and I've learned a couple of things: if you have an Italian plate in certain parts of Croatia there's a risk it might get vandalised; if you have a Serbian plate in parts of Bosnia it will get vandalised. Call me cautious, but I think that an Albanian-plated car in Serbia is asking for trouble.

Last thing, I'd try and do less. Your itinerary will mean you'll live in your car. Balkan roads might not be the potholed nightmare they once were, but they're long and winding: doing all you want to do means you'll spend very long stretches of time in your car. Either do northern Balkans or southern, in my opinion.
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 6:58 am
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Originally Posted by 13901
Right off the bat I'd say that I wouldn't want to do 3 Greek islands and up to 5 Balkan countries with a toddler and a pregnant wife but that's for you to decide.

The second point I'd make is to be very mindful of where you get your car, i.e. which licence plate it'll have. I've done a few road trips in the northernmost reaches of the Balkans (Slovenia, Bosnia, Croatia, Serbia) in the last 5/10 years and I've learned a couple of things: if you have an Italian plate in certain parts of Croatia there's a risk it might get vandalised; if you have a Serbian plate in parts of Bosnia it will get vandalised. Call me cautious, but I think that an Albanian-plated car in Serbia is asking for trouble.

Last thing, I'd try and do less. Your itinerary will mean you'll live in your car. Balkan roads might not be the potholed nightmare they once were, but they're long and winding: doing all you want to do means you'll spend very long stretches of time in your car. Either do northern Balkans or southern, in my opinion.
Such a great point! Maybe ill put a huge American flag on it, haha jk. How do we pick a plate, seems impossible? We would rent in Albania and drop off in Serbia.

What would you recommend for the itinerary?
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 7:28 am
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Originally Posted by TravelDoorsOut
Such a great point! Maybe ill put a huge American flag on it, haha jk. How do we pick a plate, seems impossible? We would rent in Albania and drop off in Serbia.

What would you recommend for the itinerary?
I don't want to sound alarmist, to exaggerate the risks of something or to teach you guys to suck eggs but... yeah, history plays a part in that corner of Europe and it's mostly recent history, i.e. within living memory. There's still bullet holes in the walls and minefields (kindly marked by USAID maps by the way!). My first trip to the Balkans was with an Italian-plated van for a basketball tournament in Zagreb where we got utterly thrashed (as normal). Our van was keyed thoroughly and it wasn't the other teams, it happened downtown in a fairly leafy part of town. As you drive through Bosnia an easy way to gauge in which canton you're in is to look at the street signs: those in Cyrillic will be crossed out in the Croatian or Bosniak areas, viceversa for Srpska. Personally, I wouldn't drive an Albanian-plated car into Serbia, or viceversa for that matter. I don't mean to say you risk your life, God forbid, but if you can avoid unnecessary attention... why not?

Itinerary-wise, I wouldn't try to drive up from Albania: too many frontiers, you're mixing EU and non-EU countries, just too much hassle. My last trip started off in Hungary and then we drove into Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and back. If I were you I'd fly into, say, Austria and from there go down to Slovenia (Ljubljana is beautiful), Sarajevo, Mostar and Croatia. On the latter I know Dubrovnik gets great press, I found it a bit 'meh', but surely better than Zara/Zadar. There's plenty to do and see on that coast, though. Zagreb, on the other hand, was quite an interesting discovery!

Albania is nice and on the up, but crossing there into Kosovo and thence into Serbia is not something I'd do right now. Of Macedonia I only know Skopje which, though perfectly acceptable, is not someplace I'd go out of my way for; Belgrade is interesting and very lively although I'd consider it as part of another tour, one of Bulgaria and Romania. As for Montenegro... Never been there, so can't say.
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 7:52 am
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First of all, cross-border one-ways in Europe are prohibitively expensive, and outside of EU pretty much impossible. I'd look to make a circular itinerary, or rent a new car in each country you go into by some other means. Personally, I wouldn't drive an Albanian-plated car in Serbia (or vice-versa), and I'm from the region and speak the language. There's high likelihood you may run into trouble. As 13901 said, cut down on the number of places, otherwise you will spend your days on the (potholed) roads, and not really having time to enjoy any place in particular. Not to mention spend several hundred euros in small notes bribing all the cops along the way who will just love a chance to stop a non-suspecting tourist in a foreign rental car.

And, yeah, a huge American flag on your car might get you cookie points in Albania, but is surely to get your car keyed (or tires slashed, or windows smashed) in Serbia :P As 13901 said, the history is convoluted, and fresh.

BTW, there's no train service to Dubrovnik. The closest train station is Ploce, which is 100 km north of Dubrovnik, and you'll still have to cross the border to Bosnia - twice - to get from there to Dubrovnik by road
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 10:04 am
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The area near Thessaloniki is surprisingly interesting, filled with historical sites. I'd also include Meterora, roughly 3 or 4 hours from Thessaloniki. The sky high monasteries are fascinating, a true top site to see. Stay overnight in Meteora. Hotels are substandard, but it's all about being close to the monasteries. You can easily go on to Corfu and have some beach time, as well as see a museum or two on the island. This keeps you in Greece for all of this. I believe but am not sure that you can go into Macedonia without any restrictions. We stayed in Skopje on two trips and found lots that was fascinating within short driving distance. The Marriott on the central square is a lovely property.
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 1:25 pm
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Thanks for all the input...what if i rent in Albania and drop off in Macedonia? Rent a car in Macedonia, drive to Serbia/Bosnia/Croatia, than make my way down to Dubrovnik and Macedonia? This is such a difficult plan to trip, I would appreciate any help!
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 1:39 pm
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Originally Posted by TravelDoorsOut
Thanks for all the input...what if i rent in Albania and drop off in Macedonia? Rent a car in Macedonia, drive to Serbia/Bosnia/Croatia, than make my way down to Dubrovnik and Macedonia? This is such a difficult plan to trip, I would appreciate any help!
I'm not too sure as to whether a Macedonian plate would cause 'people' problems so I'll leave it to others but... it's still a lot of km's and a lot of countries you're trying to cram in.

Another thing that came to my mind is borders. Entering Xinjiang has numbed me, but entering Serbia/Bosnia/etc means passing through border checks. In some cases it's a simple check of papers, maybe a look in the boot, stamping of papers and off you go; but when you're entering an EU country (such as Croatia) border checks are harder due to immigration risks. It mightn't be as bad as entering Hungary from Serbia, but on a Macedonian plate... it might be a hassle. And in Covid times?

I appreciate you want to tick as many countries as you can but if I were you, considering where we are, considering that you'll be travelling with a pregnant wife and a toddler I'd play it safe. You can always come back another time.
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 5:50 pm
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Originally Posted by TravelDoorsOut
Thanks for all the input...what if i rent in Albania and drop off in Macedonia? Rent a car in Macedonia, drive to Serbia/Bosnia/Croatia, than make my way down to Dubrovnik and Macedonia? This is such a difficult plan to trip, I would appreciate any help!
Possible in theory, IF you can find a rental agency willing to do this.

As written before, not many agencies in this part of Europe are keen on having their cars being taken over the border. Especially not the big international chains! I would recommend to start checking local rental companies first. I'm quite sure that after contacting a few of them you will already get an idea how difficult this entire idea is.

Simply put, you need permission from the rental company (a written document signed by them!) stating that you are first of all allowed to take a car across the border and second of all that it's fully insured in third countries. Without this, you will simply not make it with your rental car from North Macedonia into any of the neighbouring countries (or with a Montenegrin rental car to Serbia, with an Albanian car to Montenegro or whatever other border). This document will be asked for by the border guards at all international borders.

Basically, with that letter comes full cross-border insurance as well. If something goes wrong, the rental company needs to pick up the car 100s of miles from their home country or somehow arrange repairs. This is why often such a permission/document is not given in the first place, and if you find a car company willing to do so, you can expect a hefty daily surcharge for each day you are taking the car out of the country where you are renting it.

Now some rentals might be very well possible. A Croatian car rental company might allow you entry into Bosnia, or a Montenegrin one into Serbia and Croatia. These are countries with relatively close links to each other. But I wouldn't count on any other country allowing their cars into Albania, for example. Again, politics! And some countries not having the best reputation when it comes to road quality and tolerance towards certain foreign number plates, whether this is fair or unfair is another discussion, but it's just the way how it is. You can thus also completely forget about finding one-way rentals in this region - I'd be surprised if you can find one at all, let alone one which is reasonably priced.

To give you an idea how complicated it is with rental cars: once me and some friends decided it was easier to BUY a 2nd hand car in Bulgaria as it was cheaper and easier with paperwork than doing a 2-week rental to tour the Balkans

For a multi-country trip in this region, the fact is that you will be reliant on public transport. It's just the local way of life: you either have your own car, or you take a bus/minibus. It's not luxurious, it's not fast, but there are good links between all the main cities. Train service in this part of Europe is highly limited, with the only services which are currently worth taking being Bar/Podgorica (Montenegro) to Belgrade (one of Europe's most scenic rides, highly recommended!) and Split to Zagreb. Dubrovnik has no rail connections, and even the closest station of Ploce which was mentioned above currently has no service (the Ploce-Mostar-Sarajevo line nowadays only sees a rail service on the Bosnian stretch between Mostar and Sarajevo, which is scenic too). Due to corona/track works there aren't even rail links between Croatia and Serbia at the moment...
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 5:56 pm
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And to post something a bit more constructive as well. What about adding Corfu first instead of Zakynthos? If you are on Paros, Mykonos or any other Cycladic island with an airport it would be an easy and probably fast flight connection on Aegean/Olympic Paros-Athens-Corfu.

There are ferries from Corfu to beautiful Saranda in Albania: https://www.finikas-lines.com/lines

From there, you can easily go by bus to Tirana, then by bus to Montenegro, take the train to Belgrade. From there you could again go by bus to Bosnia (Sarajevo), where you might find a rental car outfit which will allow you to also go into Croatia, as long as you return the car back in Sarajevo. It's easy to create a nice road trip loop Bosnia-Croatia-Bosnia without backtracking! End the trip in Sarajevo.
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 6:56 pm
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Originally Posted by Romanianflyer
And to post something a bit more constructive as well. What about adding Corfu first instead of Zakynthos? If you are on Paros, Mykonos or any other Cycladic island with an airport it would be an easy and probably fast flight connection on Aegean/Olympic Paros-Athens-Corfu.

There are ferries from Corfu to beautiful Saranda in Albania: https://www.finikas-lines.com/lines

From there, you can easily go by bus to Tirana, then by bus to Montenegro, take the train to Belgrade. From there you could again go by bus to Bosnia (Sarajevo), where you might find a rental car outfit which will allow you to also go into Croatia, as long as you return the car back in Sarajevo. It's easy to create a nice road trip loop Bosnia-Croatia-Bosnia without backtracking! End the trip in Sarajevo.
That is actually an excellent suggestion!! But I'm afraid, at the end of your vacation, you'll need a vacation from vacation. If I planned a trip like that (and - unlike your first itinerary, this is the one I would consider ), I would also plan for a week of absolutely no travel in a nice place somewhere. Maybe instead of bus Belgrade - Sarajevo, fly BEG-SPU or BEG-DBV, and do your circular road trip through Bosnia from there. Lets you end the trip at the seaside, where you can just kick your feet up and take some rest from all the road trippin'.

Actually, now that I think of it - you can fly BEG-ZAG, enjoy the capital of Croatia, rent a car there, drive into Bosnia, then back into Croatia, but on the southern coast. Return the car to Split or Dubrovnik. One way rentals are quite possible within Croatia, you will pay a surcharge, but it's worth it. When you rent, as Romanianflyer said, make sure you point out that you'll be driving into Bosnia (there may be a surcharge), and request to get a "Green card" - it's an international insurance card that you will need on you to enter Bosnia.

Last edited by hdogan; Jun 2, 2021 at 6:57 pm Reason: formatting
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 11:09 pm
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Originally Posted by hdogan
That is actually an excellent suggestion!! But I'm afraid, at the end of your vacation, you'll need a vacation from vacation. If I planned a trip like that (and - unlike your first itinerary, this is the one I would consider ), I would also plan for a week of absolutely no travel in a nice place somewhere. Maybe instead of bus Belgrade - Sarajevo, fly BEG-SPU or BEG-DBV, and do your circular road trip through Bosnia from there. Lets you end the trip at the seaside, where you can just kick your feet up and take some rest from all the road trippin'.

Actually, now that I think of it - you can fly BEG-ZAG, enjoy the capital of Croatia, rent a car there, drive into Bosnia, then back into Croatia, but on the southern coast. Return the car to Split or Dubrovnik. One way rentals are quite possible within Croatia, you will pay a surcharge, but it's worth it. When you rent, as Romanianflyer said, make sure you point out that you'll be driving into Bosnia (there may be a surcharge), and request to get a "Green card" - it's an international insurance card that you will need on you to enter Bosnia.
Originally Posted by Romanianflyer
And to post something a bit more constructive as well. What about adding Corfu first instead of Zakynthos? If you are on Paros, Mykonos or any other Cycladic island with an airport it would be an easy and probably fast flight connection on Aegean/Olympic Paros-Athens-Corfu.

There are ferries from Corfu to beautiful Saranda in Albania: https://www.finikas-lines.com/lines

From there, you can easily go by bus to Tirana, then by bus to Montenegro, take the train to Belgrade. From there you could again go by bus to Bosnia (Sarajevo), where you might find a rental car outfit which will allow you to also go into Croatia, as long as you return the car back in Sarajevo. It's easy to create a nice road trip loop Bosnia-Croatia-Bosnia without backtracking! End the trip in Sarajevo.
Originally Posted by Romanianflyer
Possible in theory, IF you can find a rental agency willing to do this.

As written before, not many agencies in this part of Europe are keen on having their cars being taken over the border. Especially not the big international chains! I would recommend to start checking local rental companies first. I'm quite sure that after contacting a few of them you will already get an idea how difficult this entire idea is.

Simply put, you need permission from the rental company (a written document signed by them!) stating that you are first of all allowed to take a car across the border and second of all that it's fully insured in third countries. Without this, you will simply not make it with your rental car from North Macedonia into any of the neighbouring countries (or with a Montenegrin rental car to Serbia, with an Albanian car to Montenegro or whatever other border). This document will be asked for by the border guards at all international borders.

Basically, with that letter comes full cross-border insurance as well. If something goes wrong, the rental company needs to pick up the car 100s of miles from their home country or somehow arrange repairs. This is why often such a permission/document is not given in the first place, and if you find a car company willing to do so, you can expect a hefty daily surcharge for each day you are taking the car out of the country where you are renting it.

Now some rentals might be very well possible. A Croatian car rental company might allow you entry into Bosnia, or a Montenegrin one into Serbia and Croatia. These are countries with relatively close links to each other. But I wouldn't count on any other country allowing their cars into Albania, for example. Again, politics! And some countries not having the best reputation when it comes to road quality and tolerance towards certain foreign number plates, whether this is fair or unfair is another discussion, but it's just the way how it is. You can thus also completely forget about finding one-way rentals in this region - I'd be surprised if you can find one at all, let alone one which is reasonably priced.

To give you an idea how complicated it is with rental cars: once me and some friends decided it was easier to BUY a 2nd hand car in Bulgaria as it was cheaper and easier with paperwork than doing a 2-week rental to tour the Balkans

For a multi-country trip in this region, the fact is that you will be reliant on public transport. It's just the local way of life: you either have your own car, or you take a bus/minibus. It's not luxurious, it's not fast, but there are good links between all the main cities. Train service in this part of Europe is highly limited, with the only services which are currently worth taking being Bar/Podgorica (Montenegro) to Belgrade (one of Europe's most scenic rides, highly recommended!) and Split to Zagreb. Dubrovnik has no rail connections, and even the closest station of Ploce which was mentioned above currently has no service (the Ploce-Mostar-Sarajevo line nowadays only sees a rail service on the Bosnian stretch between Mostar and Sarajevo, which is scenic too). Due to corona/track works there aren't even rail links between Croatia and Serbia at the moment...

Now we are talking! I like the Croatia-Bosnia-Croatia idea... visiting from Dubrovnik to Sarajevo/Mostar and back. Perhaps, Dubrovnik to Montenegro and back as well? We have to end in Croatia, so that would make more sense.

Is Macedonia worth going to? Kosovo?

I think the end of my trip I get... Belgrade to Zagreb to rent a car, drive to Split/Dubrovnik (day trip into Monstar/Sarajevo, +/- stay a night or so)...the front end of the trip is what I'm having problems with.
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 11:21 pm
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Kosovo you can skip, IMO Macedonia is nice, but I would only fit it in if you actually have time. See Skopje, spend a day at Lake Ohrid... But you'll have your itinerary full by then, so I'd suggest to leave it for another time I think the others on the thread have given you a pretty fair indication of Macedonia.
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Old Jun 2, 2021, 11:47 pm
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Originally Posted by TravelDoorsOut
Thanks for all the input...what if i rent in Albania and drop off in Macedonia? Rent a car in Macedonia, drive to Serbia/Bosnia/Croatia, than make my way down to Dubrovnik and Macedonia? This is such a difficult plan to trip, I would appreciate any help!
I doubt you will find a rental agency willing to do drop offs in another country.
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Old Jun 3, 2021, 7:19 am
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Originally Posted by hdogan
Kosovo you can skip, IMO Macedonia is nice, but I would only fit it in if you actually have time. See Skopje, spend a day at Lake Ohrid... But you'll have your itinerary full by then, so I'd suggest to leave it for another time I think the others on the thread have given you a pretty fair indication of Macedonia.
Kosovo is the least interesting of all the countries there, I agree. It's nice enough if you happen to be there (at least visit Prizren and not only Pristina), but not worth the detour IMO.

North Macedonia does have some interesting places to see and some gorgeous nature (Lake Ohrid is indeed lovely) but the problem for OP is that it would be a) such a huge detour and b) immensely complicate logistics. I'd therefore skip it as well. You can always come back and visit North Macedonia then in combination with Thessaloniki (Greek Macedonia) or Bulgaria, for example!

But I'm afraid, at the end of your vacation, you'll need a vacation from vacation.

This is also excellent advice. Don't underestimate road distances! It might look short on a map/in miles, but road quality is not always as good, there can be serious delays at the borders, and with the exception of Croatia you will mainly hit one-lane provincial roads with all their turns and twists in mountainous terrain.

I had a similar Balkan road trip before which involved lots of driving and it was great, but it left me exhausted after it all! I'd highly recommend to plan in enough days in between where you won't drive/have actually time to relax a bit at the coast or in some of the lovely cities in the interior like Sarajevo.
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