likethis

I live in UK, naturalised British at eight years of age (now 40s), but post-Brexit I’d like to maintain my rights as an EU citizen.

I’m thus considering doing what is know as “recovering” my Spanish citizenship “by origin” (which has been confirmed I’m eligible to do).

The questions in my mind are:

1) I’m told Spain requires me to renounce my UK citizenship - but so far as I understand it that is for Spain’s own purpose only. They would consider me Spanish only, but UK would consider me a dual-national. Would Spain have the right to retain or invalidate my passport at the Spanish consulate?

2) I’m told I have to go to the Spanish consulate in London, but I have no idea what such a meeting will entail?

3) Are there tax implications?

4) I don’t intend to live in Spain anytime soon - would it be better to just wait to see how rEU/UK relations go, or just go for it now?

5) Anyone else here gone this route?

Palal

1. Talk to a lawyer
2. Go and ask what the process is.
3. Not if you become a resident of Spain.
4. Do it now. Spanish laws may change later.

Now, have you ever renounced your Spanish citizenship? If not, then you should still be a citizen, and showing your birth certificate (or whatever other official docs confirming your citizenship) is all you need to apply for a passport.

:D!

If Spain says you need to renounce your British citizenship then that's what you'll have to do. Even if they take away your passport you will still be a British citizen. You then have the ability to reacquire your British citizenship once per lifetime, though that might cause you to automatically lose your new Spanish citizenship if Spain finds out.

Regarding the process, you would probably have more luck asking on a Spanish language forum. Regarding tax, for UK tax it depends on the deal with the EU. Currently non-UK residents benefit from a UK personal allowance on their UK income if they are EEA citizens, which could change, so if you renounce your British citizenship this could affect you if you live outside the UK and have UK income.

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UKtravelbear

The answer is go and talk to a lawyer sppecialising in Spanish immigration law.

FT is a good resource but it's not a place to get personal, specialist, technical advice on issues such as nationality and taxation

lhrsfo

A common sense check suggests that, if Spain requires you to renounce your UK citizenship, that's what you would have to do. If it doesn't permit you to have dual nationality, then you will have to choose between one or the other. Tricking things to get around the nationality laws risks making life extremely difficult, potentially losing both nationalities as well as incurring penalties. Unless you have strong legal advice from lawyers who specialise in such matters in both countries that this is possible, don't go there.

And the same goes for taxation, although you are more likely to find specialist books which will guide you as to the overall tax position related to your residence and whether Spain taxes its non-resident citizens.

GUWonder

A person with only UK and Spanish citizenship history can’t lost both nationalities at once, as it’s illegal for Spain and the UK to make any citizen stateless.

Sometimes it is a good place for all of the above. And sometimes it’s not.

JBord

Which to me means it's not to be a trusted source. The OP needs to consult a lawyer not post questions on a travel forum. I hope he does that and forgets he ever started this thread. Even someone acting like an attorney here may not be, and may not have the OP's best interests in mind.

likethis

I was not looking for binding or paid for advice here. I had Googled dual citizenship and quite a few results came out of this forum actually.

I was looking for any others that might have been through similar.

I have been in contact with both a lawyer and the Spanish consulate, but the rules are somewhat cloudy even for them.

As someone correctly stated, I could not be left stateless.

Regarding “renunciation” I’ve yet to find evidence of it ever being contested.

However, despite slightly shirty responses I’ll leave this thread here for now. I’ll come back when I find answers and might actually help someone else in future.

GUWonder

Having dealt at the nexus of citizenship and taxation matters with lawyers over the years and seen some blunders that arise from compartmentalized knowledge (even when including hand-offs between lawyers with different competencies) and some genius moves from those who don’t limit themselves in the hunt for information, I will say that there Is great use in using lawyers but also risk at times in relying upon just one lawyer (or even two or more lawyers) without also seeking out the knowledge and/or experience of multiple others ... lawyers and otherwise — when in the OP’s kind of situation.

Fortunately for the OP, there is a substantial enough community of Spanish Brits, and asking them — even online — can be enlightening;whether it’s about finding a lawyer already well-versed in Spanish and British citizenship and residency matters (including that related to taxes, estates/probate and/or family law matters) or to get a sense from others who have gone through the situation without using a lawyer and how that went.

This doesn’t mean to take everything or most everything said online in a travel forum,as gospel, but it also doesn’t mean that there is no useful citizenship information to be sourced on FT too. There is at times.

lhrsfo

The bolded bit is the key here. It's easy to find British lawyers who know about UK citizenship, tax and family matters, and it's easy to find Spanish lawyers who know about Spanish citizenship, tax and family matters. It's much more difficult, and expensive, to find a lawyer who is familiar with both, and how the two systems interact. And it's understanding the interaction that is essential in these matters.

sydunipete

Although not Spain, I have been through a similar process with Italy. I am Australian by birth and Italian by descent and I applied for Italian citizenship only recently.

My meeting at the consulate was to check the forms, make sure I met the requirements and of course to take the cash application fee.

I didn't engage an immigration lawyer, but in another instance I did and it was worth every cent. I would suggest at least an initial meeting is a good idea.

There are no tax implications by regaining your citizenship as taxation is based upon where you reside - except for the USA where you are liable for US tax no matter where you reside - and they are VERY good at collecting it. There are protections to avoid double taxation but it does get complex quickly so a good experienced tax accountant would be a good idea before contemplating moving to Spain.

Definitely do it now. Who knows what might change with Spanish immigration policy and your personal circumstances and desire to move to Spain.

LondonElite

Who is telling you all of this? Sounds like a pile of garbage to me. Talk to an immigration lawyer.

GUWonder

Most immigration lawyers are no better on international tax matters than the average person at the neighborhood pub on a lazy Saturday afternoon.

The US is rather unique — albeit not the only country — to have its citizens resident abroad subject to taxation/tax code in the country of citizenship even for income generated only outside of the country of citizenship. Even if the US citizen has never stepped into the US and has never made any money in the US, the US citizen with income abroad is subject to taxation (inclusive of tax filing requirements) in the US with limited exception. Taxing one’s own citizens resident abroad for income generated outside of the country of citizenship is not common. At one point it was said the US was in the same group as North Korea and Eritrea in this regard but you would be hard pressed to add more than 1-4 additional countries to the special group that included the US, North Korea, Eritrea but very few (if any) other countries at that time.

dj_jay_smith

1) Dual nationality is a matter for both sides. This means that the rules from the UK side must be adhered to as well as the rules from the Spanish side.
The UK is flexible on dual nationality and basically allows it for most if not all cases. Other countries, including Spain, are not and have more complex rules.
For example: It would appear that if you are Spanish by origin and you informed them that you wanted to keep your Spanish nationality within a certain time limit then you may do so. Given you were 8 when you became a UK citizenship then you would have to speak to your parents (or whoever applied for UK citizenship on your behalf) about if they done this or not. If so, then you already have dual nationality.

Renouncing your citizenship is an official process. Spain would not just accept your "word" that you have done this, but would require official papers from the UK authorities to prove that you have done it.
In order to assure that you would not be stateless, then when you apply Spain would actually only ask you to make this step when all other hurdles have been completed from their side (i.e. you will get Spanish citizenship). You might end up stateless for a few days or weeks and while this is technically not allowed it is accepted in cases of changing nationality as it is just a temporary status. And you have 6 months for your new nationality to be confirmed, otherwise you can go back to being a UK citizen.

See: https://www.gov.uk/renounce-british-nationality
BTW: You will have to pay to do this. I believe it is currently 372 GBP. (Which is cheap compared to some countries!)


4) If you renounce your UK citizenship then you no longer have an automatic right to live and work in the UK!!
As a Spanish citizen them you would have to go through the same process as all other EU citizens in the UK and apply for the right to remain there beyond the end of 2020. Your previous UK citizenship will not give you any advantage in this case, and will probably just make things more confusing!


I understand your desire to keep EU citizenship, but I'm not sure that in this case this is the right route for you.

But, citizenship law is complex which is why I agree with others in that you need to speak to an immigration lawyer who knows primarily Spanish citizenship laws as well as UK ones. There might be special little know laws that would apply to you for your specific circumstances.

catandmouse

Just as an anecdote concerning the UK attitude to dual-nationality. At the time, I think it was France, didn't recognise dual-nationality and if you became French, they would collect your British passport. They would then send it on to the British consulate, who, helpfully, would return it to you.
Probably doesn't work like that anymore.