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-   -   Connecting through LHR input please (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/europe/1946837-connecting-through-lhr-input-please.html)

fredrok Dec 23, 2018 11:40 am


Originally Posted by Barcky (Post 30563563)
The OP info shows a join date of Dec 2009 and it's been noted that this is their first post. Nine years of lurking before a first post might be a FT record. Welcome aboard fredrok!

Thank you! Well, tbt, I haven't been lurking the whole time. I think I came on to research something back in the day and recalled this site when I was curious about the topic. That said, it's a great resource! I'm a charter pilot so I bounce all around the western hemisphere for work but I've only been a few times to the other side.

NWIFlyer Dec 24, 2018 3:37 pm

As this is the OP’s first trip through Heathrow, let me add that - unless connecting from another UK domestic airport and not swapping terminals - security is a given anyway, so putting to one side the risk aspect of separate tickets the extra time here is for immigration and bag collect/re-check only.

How long that takes is really a piece of string question. I’d probably want to allow a couple of hours for the immigration part to be on the safe side, which is a long way over the Border Force’s target but not totally unrealistic at busy times, and if at T5 then bags must be checked 45 minutes before for short haul, and security entered 35 minutes before. In the OP’s position as a first time visitor I’d want to allow extra time from those minima in case the flight leaves from a remote terminal - particularly T5C - because of the extra transit time, perhaps up to 15 minutes compared to a gate in the main terminal for the uninitiated.

That said, the other prophesies of doom espoused here are way over the top, in my opinion. As a US citizen, Brexit does not affect your admissibility one iota, and I would seriously doubt it would make any material difference to queuing time when you’re having to leave such a long time anyway. I’ll leave you to come to your own conclusions as to the extent of knowledge of those who push certain theories on this against the advice given by those closer to the situation in other threads.

Additionally, Heathrow has actually put a great deal of effort into clear, efficient signage. I have the advantage of knowing where I’m going when I’m there and don’t need to follow it, but before I gained that familiarity I found it one of the very best airports to navigate. It is an infinitely superior overall experience compared to other busy airports such as FRA.

fredrok Dec 25, 2018 8:41 pm

Great post and thank you. I'm pretty much coming to the conclusion that leaving 5hrs for the process (arrive 0650, depart 1215) should be a safe bet and with a net savings around $2,700 from "connecting through" to CFU, worth the experience.

fredrok Dec 26, 2018 12:17 pm

And alas, this statement in the minimum sty fine print as I book the tickets I believe puts the kabosh on my money-saving plan....

"For shx5c7m5 type fares travel from inbound transatlantic sector must commence no earlier than 7 days after departure of the outbound transatlantic sector. And - travel from turnaround must commence no earlier than 24 hours after arrival at turnaround."

:D! Dec 27, 2018 5:06 am


Originally Posted by fredrok (Post 30575705)
And alas, this statement in the minimum sty fine print as I book the tickets I believe puts the kabosh on my money-saving plan....

"For shx5c7m5 type fares travel from inbound transatlantic sector must commence no earlier than 7 days after departure of the outbound transatlantic sector. And - travel from turnaround must commence no earlier than 24 hours after arrival at turnaround."

?? you're only spending half a day in Corfu? How did you calculate your "savings" if your ticket was not even bookable?

dulciusexasperis Dec 27, 2018 11:35 am


Originally Posted by fredrok (Post 30575705)
And alas, this statement in the minimum sty fine print as I book the tickets I believe puts the kabosh on my money-saving plan....

"For shx5c7m5 type fares travel from inbound transatlantic sector must commence no earlier than 7 days after departure of the outbound transatlantic sector. And - travel from turnaround must commence no earlier than 24 hours after arrival at turnaround."

Huh? Which ticket is it that this is referring to, your AA flight to the UK and back or your separate BA ticket to Corfu and back and why does it put the kabosh on your plan? Assuming you are returning to the USA the same way, you have TWO turnaround points if you are flying on two separate tickets as you say you planned to do. London and Corfu are your turnaround points. :D! assumes you mean Corfu is the turnaround in question and that you plan to stay less than 24 hours. Is that the case?

You have made the problem you perceive with this, far from clear.

GUWonder Dec 27, 2018 2:26 pm


Originally Posted by fredrok (Post 30575705)
And alas, this statement in the minimum sty fine print as I book the tickets I believe puts the kabosh on my money-saving plan....

"For shx5c7m5 type fares travel from inbound transatlantic sector must commence no earlier than 7 days after departure of the outbound transatlantic sector. And - travel from turnaround must commence no earlier than 24 hours after arrival at turnaround."

Try to book a hotel+flight package to Corfu — maybe even using AA or BA-affiliated websites for vacation packages. Sometimes that’s a way around restrictive fare rules for US-Greece-US travel when US-UK-US and UK-Greece-UK routings don’t have such restrictive fare rules (as US-CFU-US) to get cheaper tickets.

GUWonder Dec 27, 2018 2:29 pm


Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis (Post 30578989)
Huh? Which ticket is it that this is referring to, your AA flight to the UK and back or your separate BA ticket to Corfu and back and why does it put the kabosh on your plan? Assuming you are returning to the USA the same way, you have TWO turnaround points if you are flying on two separate tickets as you say you planned to do. London and Corfu are your turnaround points. :D! assumes you mean Corfu is the turnaround in question and that you plan to stay less than 24 hours. Is that the case?

You have made the problem you perceive with this, far from clear.

The problem is clear as pure water: US-CFU-US minimum stay rule for a cheaper fare is more restrictive than a US-UK-US fare + UK-CFU-UK fare for the same flights as US-LON-CFU-LON-US.

FlyerTLV Dec 27, 2018 2:58 pm


Originally Posted by fredrok (Post 30563489)
[...] even if I missed and would have to buy another set of tickets to CFU, I'd still be way ahead. I would love to go through Athens for a few reasons but the extra hassle of not technically "connecting" or a less optimal airport may be worth it.

The walk-up tickets to CFU would cost a lot more than the discounted tickets you found on sale months in advance, so you would not be ahead anymore. Also, the flights may be full and you could get stranded. The 5-hour window would vanish in case of a massive delay or cancellation of the transatlantic flight. It all boils down to your risk tolerance.

dulciusexasperis Dec 28, 2018 9:50 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 30579605)


The problem is clear as pure water: US-CFU-US minimum stay rule for a cheaper fare is more restrictive than a US-UK-US fare + UK-CFU-UK fare for the same flights as US-LON-CFU-LON-US.

The OP is talking about booking the flights separately. So it is not a US-CFU-US ticket. It is a US-UK ticket and a UK-CFU ticket. We agree on that. What is not clear to me is where he sees the minimum stay rule as being a problem. He cannot return on the US-UK-US return ticket in under 7 days. He cannot return on the UK-CFU-UK ticket in under 24 hours. My question is, which is the problem if any? Does he intend to spend less than 7 days total on the entire trip or less than 24 hours in Corfu? We have no indication from the OP in regards to time.

The only way I would see the restricitons as being a problem was if he was booking it all on one ticket, which he says he is not. There is no US-LON-CFU-LON-US ticket.

GUWonder Dec 29, 2018 4:45 am


Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis (Post 30581981)
The OP is talking about booking the flights separately. So it is not a US-CFU-US ticket. It is a US-UK ticket and a UK-CFU ticket. We agree on that. What is not clear to me is where he sees the minimum stay rule as being a problem. He cannot return on the US-UK-US return ticket in under 7 days. He cannot return on the UK-CFU-UK ticket in under 24 hours. My question is, which is the problem if any? Does he intend to spend less than 7 days total on the entire trip or less than 24 hours in Corfu? We have no indication from the OP in regards to time.

The only way I would see the restricitons as being a problem was if he was booking it all on one ticket, which he says he is not. There is no US-LON-CFU-LON-US ticket.

The OP is talking about booking separate tickets because of the cost difference from doing it all one one ticketed itinerary. And the cost difference is related to the cheaper fare having a minimum stay restriction hitting differently when doing it on a single ticketed itinerary than when doing a trip with separately ticketed itineraries.

dulciusexasperis Dec 29, 2018 4:43 pm


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 30584518)


The OP is talking about booking separate tickets because of the cost difference from doing it all one one ticketed itinerary. And the cost difference is related to the cheaper fare having a minimum stay restriction hitting differently when doing it on a single ticketed itinerary than when doing a trip with separately ticketed itineraries.

I believe I have made it clear thatI understand that GUWonder but the OP has not said how the minimum stay requirement now makes his plan a 'no go'. Either his total trip will have to be under a week to hit the 7 day UK return requirement or his Corfu time will have to be under 24 hours for that to impact his plan.

So the question is does he plan to spend less than a week from departure in the USA to his return from the UK or less than 24 hours from his arrival in Corfu to his departure from Corfu? Either would be somewhat unusual if he is going to Corfu for a vacation. He could of course be flying from the US to Corfu simply to attend a business meeting and then planning to fly right back home again the same day. The point is we don't know if he actually has a problem OR has misunderstood the minimum stay impact on his plan.

GUWonder Dec 30, 2018 4:24 am


Originally Posted by dulciusexasperis (Post 30586311)
So the question is does he plan to spend less than a week from departure in the USA to his return from the UK or less than 24 hours from his arrival in Corfu to his departure from Corfu? Either would be somewhat unusual if he is going to Corfu for a vacation. He could of course be flying from the US to Corfu simply to attend a business meeting and then planning to fly right back home again the same day. The point is we don't know if he actually has a problem OR has misunderstood the minimum stay impact on his plan.

It doesn’t seem to be a matter of “no-go” or “go” as much as it’s about costs when going. Breaking up the trip into separate tickets may lowers costs, and this is one of those times and is almost certainly due at least in some part to less restrictive minimum stay restrictions for US-LON-US and for LON-CFU-LON than for US-CFU-US. There is more competition for fares on US-LON-US than for US-CFU-US, and it shows up in how prices and minimum stay restrictions hit customers.

Your question posited above rests upon a false choice. The OP could be meeting your question’s A choice with or without meeting your question’s B choice. There are more than just the two possibilities which you presented in the question above.

If I were the OP, I would say 4-6 hours of budgeted transit time at LHR on separate tickets is what I would consider very safe for US-LHR+LHR-CFU routing. But at some point, I would just as well consider overnighting at London in that direction or maybe even more so in the opposite direction. Does the OP’s bank card used for flight trips include trip delay/cancellation coverage? If so, I would consider what that means in terms of how close I would want to cut it. I would also consider the trip destination events/purposes in how close I would want to cut the transit. I have done this kind of thing at Heathrow on separate tickets, and there are times when a budgeted four hour transit time at LHR can be insufficient or borderline sufficient when having to claim luggage at LHR and re-check-in the luggage. Then again, I’ve also had 3 hour London transits work when coming into LHR and leaving out of LGW, but I wouldn’t suggest that unless willing to eat the costs of changing plans at the last minute.

dulciusexasperis Dec 30, 2018 10:50 am


Originally Posted by GUWonder (Post 30587414)


It doesn’t seem to be a matter of “no-go” or “go” as much as it’s about costs when going. Breaking up the trip into separate tickets may lowers costs, and this is one of those times and is almost certainly due at least in some part to less restrictive minimum stay restrictions for US-LON-US and for LON-CFU-LON than for US-CFU-US. There is more competition for fares on US-LON-US than for US-CFU-US, and it shows up in how prices and minimum stay restrictions hit customers.

Your question posited above rests upon a false choice. The OP could be meeting your question’s A choice with or without meeting your question’s B choice. There are more than just the two possibilities which you presented in the question above.

If I were the OP, I would say 4-6 hours of budgeted transit time at LHR on separate tickets is what I would consider very safe for US-LHR+LHR-CFU routing. But at some point, I would just as well consider overnighting at London in that direction or maybe even more so in the opposite direction. Does the OP’s bank card used for flight trips include trip delay/cancellation coverage? If so, I would consider what that means in terms of how close I would want to cut it. I would also consider the trip destination events/purposes in how close I would want to cut the transit. I have done this kind of thing at Heathrow on separate tickets, and there are times when a budgeted four hour transit time at LHR can be insufficient or borderline sufficient when having to claim luggage at LHR and re-check-in the luggage. Then again, I’ve also had 3 hour London transits work when coming into LHR and leaving out of LGW, but I wouldn’t suggest that unless willing to eat the costs of changing plans at the last minute.

I don't know where it is that we are not agreeing, it seems as if we are but still somehow aren't seeing the same issue. I think we both understand the reasons for minimum stay restrictions but somehow, you seem to be accepting that they affect the OP's plan for 2 separete tickets, while I am questioning whether they do or not affect his plan.

If the OP came back and said he plans to fly to London, go on to Corfu for 2 weeks and then return via London to the USA, the minimum stay requirements he shows will NOT affect that plan. When he wrote that the minimum stay put the 'kybosh' on his plans, I don't see where it does, since nowhere in what he has told us is there any information to show that it will. We only know he wants to go to Corfu, we know nothing about for how long his trip will be.

GUWonder Dec 31, 2018 9:02 am

I am accepting that minimum stay restriction on a single ticket for the trip drives higher price way more than minimum stay restrictions affect the OP's planned 2 separate tickets for the trip. The OP seems to know quite clearly his/her own circumstances, so I have no reason to doubt that the minimum stay restrictions put the kybosh on doing this kind of trip on a single ticket; and I have ever reason to accept that minimum stay restrictions is what put the kybosh on buying just one ticket. Saving money does matter to consumers.

Minimum stay restrictions and day of week of travel restrictions are the reason that I very often choose to book two tickets via LHR from the US than to do the trip entirely on one ticket from the US. Unless and until the OP says it was something else, I'll take it that it was the fares' minimum stay restrictions that drove the price-based "kybosh" on plans to travel on one single ticket.

There is a long history of nested tickets being used as a means to get lower prices by circumventing minimum stay or day of week of travel restrictions on filed fares. And even if the aimed stay in Corfu were for sub-24-hours or for 4-7 days, buying separate tickets to generate a nested ticketing situation like this helps to lower the aggregate airline ticket costs for the consumer on the trip. The airline moves to cut-off checking of luggage across separate tickets was done in part as a means to push more consumers into buying more expensive tickets than was already the case and to undercut the utility consumers were getting out of nested tickets.


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