Why are European shower doors only halved?
Nov 24, 2018, 10:37 pm
#31
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Kathy (rolleyes emoji),
I can see you are in California, so you have a larger sample. I have only been in about a dozen kitchens in the States, so fewer data points here. However, without fail, every single one of those had the dangerous range type - an accident waiting to happen any time a high flame meets a wide sleeve. I am pretty sure such an unsafe device would never be approved for sale where I live. If the norm is now indeed changing, this is good news for the safety of American households.
P.S.: Our kitchen has the arrangement shown in the second photo posted by dulciusexasperis, with the induction cooktop and the high built-in oven. It makes life easier and safer. This is the norm for new kitchens.
I can see you are in California, so you have a larger sample. I have only been in about a dozen kitchens in the States, so fewer data points here. However, without fail, every single one of those had the dangerous range type - an accident waiting to happen any time a high flame meets a wide sleeve. I am pretty sure such an unsafe device would never be approved for sale where I live. If the norm is now indeed changing, this is good news for the safety of American households.
P.S.: Our kitchen has the arrangement shown in the second photo posted by dulciusexasperis, with the induction cooktop and the high built-in oven. It makes life easier and safer. This is the norm for new kitchens.
BTW, were those ranges you saw in the U.S. really gas ranges? Are you sure they weren't electric?
Nov 25, 2018, 1:24 am
#32
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I have just run a Google image search for "cooking range United States" and it confirms your comment about knob placement. Apparently, my sample was not typical (at least as far as new appliances are concerned). Also, more than a third of the appliances in the States are gas:
Nov 25, 2018, 2:26 am
#33
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(Bolding mine)
Not to burst your bubble, but front controls for the burners and oven are, and have always been, the norm on ranges in the U.S., at least. Every range I have ever seen or used, whether in someone's home, a store, or an ad has had these control knobs in front. Somehow you have managed to convince yourself otherwise and found an example that is contrary to the norm. But even the knobs in back rather than front do have at least one or two advantages: they are much harder for small children to reach, and they are harder for someone to turn on or off accidentally.
Not to burst your bubble, but front controls for the burners and oven are, and have always been, the norm on ranges in the U.S., at least. Every range I have ever seen or used, whether in someone's home, a store, or an ad has had these control knobs in front. Somehow you have managed to convince yourself otherwise and found an example that is contrary to the norm. But even the knobs in back rather than front do have at least one or two advantages: they are much harder for small children to reach, and they are harder for someone to turn on or off accidentally.
Nov 25, 2018, 5:44 am
#35
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I did a Google Images search on "electric range," and I would say roughly half of the results show the controls on the front. And for "gas range," the image search shows virtually all with them on the front.
For those of you who are lacking the context (apparently most of you), another poster claimed that in North America, the norm is for the controls to be in the back (with a single photograph of what was almost certainly an electric range). He said this design is dangerous, etc. But his premise is false.
For those of you who are lacking the context (apparently most of you), another poster claimed that in North America, the norm is for the controls to be in the back (with a single photograph of what was almost certainly an electric range). He said this design is dangerous, etc. But his premise is false.
Nov 25, 2018, 8:18 am
#36
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I too, hate showers with half glass. I always soak the floor, which is concern #1 . But the larger concern is that won't all that water on the floor eventually make its way down to the structural members of the house? Really curious to hear our non US folks chime in on this.
Structural compromise would be catastrophic....that's why I am seriously considering avoiding a glass door on my shower (when I redo my bath)....as it seems that ultimately that the lack of full enclosure allows water on the floor.
Hmmm...
Structural compromise would be catastrophic....that's why I am seriously considering avoiding a glass door on my shower (when I redo my bath)....as it seems that ultimately that the lack of full enclosure allows water on the floor.
Hmmm...
Nov 25, 2018, 10:22 am
#37
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I don’t like the half glass either, but a big absorbing bath mat does the trick. I’ve thought about replacing the door to make it a bit bigger but haven’t done so yet.
Going off topic but I can’t find many external atms that take cash deposits, you have to walk in to use the atm machine to make cash deposits. At least at Barclays
Going off topic but I can’t find many external atms that take cash deposits, you have to walk in to use the atm machine to make cash deposits. At least at Barclays
Nov 25, 2018, 10:39 am
#38
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I did a Google Images search on "electric range," and I would say roughly half of the results show the controls on the front. And for "gas range," the image search shows virtually all with them on the front.
For those of you who are lacking the context (apparently most of you), another poster claimed that in North America, the norm is for the controls to be in the back (with a single photograph of what was almost certainly an electric range). He said this design is dangerous, etc. But his premise is false.
For those of you who are lacking the context (apparently most of you), another poster claimed that in North America, the norm is for the controls to be in the back (with a single photograph of what was almost certainly an electric range). He said this design is dangerous, etc. But his premise is false.
So let's not get hung up on where controls today are or are not, the point was that what is considered (or was if you prefer) normal in N. America is quite different than what is considered normal in Europe and in this case the European norm makes much more sense from a practical use point of view. So what I was saying to the OP was different places have different norms and while we might be used to one vs. another and have a preference for 'our way', in fact 'our way' isn't always the best way. But even if 'our way' is better, complaining about how things are done somewhere else is just a waste of time. What is, is and we all have to just deal with what is. We may believe 'our way' makes more sense but that changes nothing if we are visiting somewhere 'different'.
By the way, a shower in a bathtub with a glass panel as has been standard in Europe or a bath with a shower and a shower curtain as has been standard in N. America are BOTH old news today. We recently had a bathroom renovated. We took out the bath and replaced it with a 8 by 4 foot shower. A walk-in shower with a 4 foot wide by 8 foot high glass panel on one end of the 8 foot length. There is no door, you walk in at the open end of the 8 foot length, the controls are in the middle of the other 8 foot 'back' wall and the shower head (rainshower) is on the one 4 foot wall with the 4 foot wide glass panel beside it. When you shower, the water comes straight down and any that is splashed from your body and movements, either hits the walls, the glass panel or the floor towards the back. No water goes outside the shower area.
Who really bothers to take baths anymore? Not many I suspect. So this is the best answer for how we bathe today in my opinion. If you want a bathtub, then have one separate.
PS. the photo is just an example I found online. My wife wouldn't want anyone think it was our shower LOL, our's looks much nicer.
I find it somewhat ironic given the topic of this thread being a complaint about European 'half glass' panels, that the above is better than either of the old 'norms' in my opinion and yup, it's a half glass. LOL
Last edited by dulciusexasperis; Nov 25, 2018 at 10:46 am
Nov 26, 2018, 7:58 am
#40
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Norms differ from country to country and trying to apply your own norms to another country is simply a waste of time.
There are many examples of differing norms that seem to make no sense to someone from a country with different norms. This is just one of them. Obviously, those who have such glass screens as in the picture posted above by muji, have their own way of dealing with the possibility of water splashing. That you would prefer another design enviroian doesn't mean they have the same problem with the design as you obviously do. They just know how to deal with it and you don't.
Take another example of a common difference between Europe and N. America. In N. America, the 'norm' is a kitchen 'range'. So much the 'norm' that even a European company like IKEA has to sell them in N. America. Here is an example photo:
Now contrast that to a typical 'cooktop' and 'oven' you are likely to find in Europe:
Quite a difference. Now consider the differences. To use the N. American model, you have to reach across the burners and anything on them to use the controls. Does that make sense to you? Some models do now come with front controls rather than the rear but the rear controls are still quite common. It's a poor design from the standpoint of potential burns. Look at the oven part of the range. To put in and take out say a roast turkey, you bend down to do it. Compare the typical European wall mounted oven where you put things in and take them out at a much more comfortable level. Those are just 2 simple differences but enough to then ask yourself, 'who has got this one right? N. America or Europe?' I think the answer to that is obvious just as how it might seem that a shower curtain that stops water from getting out of the bathtub seems obvious to you enviroian.
There are many examples of differing norms that seem to make no sense to someone from a country with different norms. This is just one of them. Obviously, those who have such glass screens as in the picture posted above by muji, have their own way of dealing with the possibility of water splashing. That you would prefer another design enviroian doesn't mean they have the same problem with the design as you obviously do. They just know how to deal with it and you don't.
Take another example of a common difference between Europe and N. America. In N. America, the 'norm' is a kitchen 'range'. So much the 'norm' that even a European company like IKEA has to sell them in N. America. Here is an example photo:
Now contrast that to a typical 'cooktop' and 'oven' you are likely to find in Europe:
Quite a difference. Now consider the differences. To use the N. American model, you have to reach across the burners and anything on them to use the controls. Does that make sense to you? Some models do now come with front controls rather than the rear but the rear controls are still quite common. It's a poor design from the standpoint of potential burns. Look at the oven part of the range. To put in and take out say a roast turkey, you bend down to do it. Compare the typical European wall mounted oven where you put things in and take them out at a much more comfortable level. Those are just 2 simple differences but enough to then ask yourself, 'who has got this one right? N. America or Europe?' I think the answer to that is obvious just as how it might seem that a shower curtain that stops water from getting out of the bathtub seems obvious to you enviroian.
In Canada I have an electric range, with the controls at the back. I far prefer this to the knobs at the front style I had in the UK. I have never set fire to myself while cooking, and I have also never accidentally turned on the stove (but did manage that in the UK occasionally - to the point I left the child lock on unless actively using it, even though I didn't have kids).
From the oven perspective it is far safer to have a lower oven, especially if you are not very tall. A dropped turkey coming out of a low oven may wreck your dinner plans, but losing control of a pan at chest height has a far higher potential for severe burns.
Nov 26, 2018, 8:02 am
#41
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KathyWdrf, I hate to burst your bubble but in fact 'ranges' as the graph posted by FlyerTLV shows, are by far the standard rather than separate surface cooking tops and separate ovens, whether electric or gas. As for knobs at the back vs. the front, yes they are now available in front. But for many decades they were all at the back and even today there are many still sold that way. The photo I posted was of a current model, not something from the past. Regardless, even you yourself have said, 'roughly half of the results show the controls on the front', which means the other half show them on the back obviously. I would agree with that kind of percentage today, but not in the past. Perhaps it is just a function of my being older than you and so looking at a longer time span. But I do not think that even today you can say controls at the back are not 'normal'. Normal doesn't mean 100% after all. It just means there are 'lots of them' and there are.
So let's not get hung up on where controls today are or are not, the point was that what is considered (or was if you prefer) normal in N. America is quite different than what is considered normal in Europe and in this case the European norm makes much more sense from a practical use point of view. So what I was saying to the OP was different places have different norms and while we might be used to one vs. another and have a preference for 'our way', in fact 'our way' isn't always the best way. But even if 'our way' is better, complaining about how things are done somewhere else is just a waste of time. What is, is and we all have to just deal with what is. We may believe 'our way' makes more sense but that changes nothing if we are visiting somewhere 'different'.
By the way, a shower in a bathtub with a glass panel as has been standard in Europe or a bath with a shower and a shower curtain as has been standard in N. America are BOTH old news today. We recently had a bathroom renovated. We took out the bath and replaced it with a 8 by 4 foot shower. A walk-in shower with a 4 foot wide by 8 foot high glass panel on one end of the 8 foot length. There is no door, you walk in at the open end of the 8 foot length, the controls are in the middle of the other 8 foot 'back' wall and the shower head (rainshower) is on the one 4 foot wall with the 4 foot wide glass panel beside it. When you shower, the water comes straight down and any that is splashed from your body and movements, either hits the walls, the glass panel or the floor towards the back. No water goes outside the shower area.
Who really bothers to take baths anymore? Not many I suspect. So this is the best answer for how we bathe today in my opinion. If you want a bathtub, then have one separate.
PS. the photo is just an example I found online. My wife wouldn't want anyone think it was our shower LOL, our's looks much nicer.
I find it somewhat ironic given the topic of this thread being a complaint about European 'half glass' panels, that the above is better than either of the old 'norms' in my opinion and yup, it's a half glass. LOL
So let's not get hung up on where controls today are or are not, the point was that what is considered (or was if you prefer) normal in N. America is quite different than what is considered normal in Europe and in this case the European norm makes much more sense from a practical use point of view. So what I was saying to the OP was different places have different norms and while we might be used to one vs. another and have a preference for 'our way', in fact 'our way' isn't always the best way. But even if 'our way' is better, complaining about how things are done somewhere else is just a waste of time. What is, is and we all have to just deal with what is. We may believe 'our way' makes more sense but that changes nothing if we are visiting somewhere 'different'.
By the way, a shower in a bathtub with a glass panel as has been standard in Europe or a bath with a shower and a shower curtain as has been standard in N. America are BOTH old news today. We recently had a bathroom renovated. We took out the bath and replaced it with a 8 by 4 foot shower. A walk-in shower with a 4 foot wide by 8 foot high glass panel on one end of the 8 foot length. There is no door, you walk in at the open end of the 8 foot length, the controls are in the middle of the other 8 foot 'back' wall and the shower head (rainshower) is on the one 4 foot wall with the 4 foot wide glass panel beside it. When you shower, the water comes straight down and any that is splashed from your body and movements, either hits the walls, the glass panel or the floor towards the back. No water goes outside the shower area.
Who really bothers to take baths anymore? Not many I suspect. So this is the best answer for how we bathe today in my opinion. If you want a bathtub, then have one separate.
PS. the photo is just an example I found online. My wife wouldn't want anyone think it was our shower LOL, our's looks much nicer.
I find it somewhat ironic given the topic of this thread being a complaint about European 'half glass' panels, that the above is better than either of the old 'norms' in my opinion and yup, it's a half glass. LOL
Nov 26, 2018, 11:13 am
#42
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,925
I’ll jump into this “bubble busting” discussion. The norm for gas stoves in the U.S. has been for the knobs to be placed on the front of the stove, at least since 1910. All you have to do is google Chambers ranges/stoves, but I’ll provide you a link:
Models Of CHAMBERS Products
I’ve lived in the south of the U.S. all of my life. Both sets of grandparents, my parents and I have always used gas stoves and the knobs have ALWAYS been on the front of the stove. In fact, my current gas stove that I’m still using was bought in 1985. So, I don’t understand where this “stuff” about knobs “now being available on the front” is coming from.
Models Of CHAMBERS Products
I’ve lived in the south of the U.S. all of my life. Both sets of grandparents, my parents and I have always used gas stoves and the knobs have ALWAYS been on the front of the stove. In fact, my current gas stove that I’m still using was bought in 1985. So, I don’t understand where this “stuff” about knobs “now being available on the front” is coming from.
Nov 26, 2018, 1:24 pm
#43
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Back to the OP's original post, regardless of how ranges are laid out, can we at least all agree that the half doors on showers are kind of silly? I understand that many bathrooms in Europe are designed to be cleaned and drained through the bathroom floor so the water that splashes out has a place to go...but when getting out of the shower, it can be a) slippery/dangerous and b) uncomfortable to have to stand in water as you're then shaving, brushing your teeth or hair, or whatever else you do after you shower. I find myself showering very carefully to minimize the puddles, and then wiping off the floor with towels after I'm done. That's not what I want to do when I'm staying in a hotel.
Maybe it's a matter of preference, but I can't see how anyone who has tried both half and full shower doors could prefer the half door mess.
Maybe it's a matter of preference, but I can't see how anyone who has tried both half and full shower doors could prefer the half door mess.
Nov 26, 2018, 1:33 pm
#44
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Back to the OP's original post, regardless of how ranges are laid out, can we at least all agree that the half doors on showers are kind of silly? I understand that many bathrooms in Europe are designed to be cleaned and drained through the bathroom floor so the water that splashes out has a place to go...but when getting out of the shower, it can be a) slippery/dangerous and b) uncomfortable to have to stand in water as you're then shaving, brushing your teeth or hair, or whatever else you do after you shower. I find myself showering very carefully to minimize the puddles, and then wiping off the floor with towels after I'm done. That's not what I want to do when I'm staying in a hotel.
Maybe it's a matter of preference, but I can't see how anyone who has tried both half and full shower doors could prefer the half door mess.
Maybe it's a matter of preference, but I can't see how anyone who has tried both half and full shower doors could prefer the half door mess.
Got one of these. Leaves about a one foot gap, door swings out for baths. Never gets the floor wet, even when kids use it. (And I have a wall mounted shower head).
Nov 27, 2018, 12:05 am
#45
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Of course, like any shower guy, I always prefer a proper standalone walk-in shower rather than one in a bath.