CanuckFlyHigh

Thank you. That is great advice. What is the weather like in mid-September?

SwissBritMiss

Complete potluck, it genuinely can vary valley to valley, hence the day trip comment ! It *should* be more likely to be dry than not, but it very much is the changeable season. I have had friends visit in October with the most glorious sun; others in August to pouring rain. We have mountains ; we have variability

​​​​​​But September is a good balance between good weather and not too expensive accommodation. As mentioned before, if you both prize travelling and good weather over lodging , I promise you that you can find acceptable, reasonable places to stay even on the fly.

LacMajeur

The below post is interesting:

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/29546424-post6.html

shuigao

@LacMajeur @dulciusexasperis Thanks for your insights! Haven't replied earlier as FT doesn't play nice with my browser and always errors out

The Rigi Katlbad + hotel idea looks amazing, I think I will (almost certainly) plan it in.

Will also have a look at Nyon/Yvoire/Cully/Lavaux and try to figure out what's the cheapest pass to buy (tourists to Geneva get free transit rides incl. the yellow boats, but I think only in the city and no further).

Day 3 Chamonix ... is actually because my wife will be in Geneva on business (and then we are taking a week off after), and her colleagues say that she must go to Chamonix, take the cable car up to the Aiguille du Midi, and then walk into the Mer de Glace. Maybe it is because they are French and not Swiss-French.

As for the 4 nights in Interlaken, I scheduled that on the (mistaken?) understanding that I wouldn't spend much time in Interlaken itself, but rather just to use as a convenient hub from which to launch multiple daytrips to the surrounding mountains/towns/etc. Having a 'fixed' location would also, in theory, give me a little bit more flexibility to switch day trips around based on the weather (as opposed to hopping from town to town which implies a more fixed schedule)? But you're right, let me have a more detailed look at Wengen, Grindelwald, etc.

SwissBritMiss

Try Lauterbrunnen. It's on the main train line going towards Jungfraujoch, so saves time vs. Interlaken. Same distance to Grindelwald. Barely adds 30 mins when you're going towards Bern. I cannot emphasise how horrible Interlaken is compared to the alternatives - like staying at a coach park at Disneyland rather than being inside.

That said, I don't understand the allure of Jungfraujoch. It's hideously expensive and to my mind , the Matterhorn Glacier Paradise offers a better view for much less. If you really want to see the Aletsch glacier, Fiesch is much less crowded .

dulciusexasperis

The problem with Switzerland, if you can call it a problem, is that there is simply too much too see and do whatever your interests are. As a result, first and even second time visitors really do try to cover too much in too little time. I don't know any other way to say that. It doesn't matter if you are a 'millennial' CanuckFlyHIgh, as if that somehow that implies that being one means you can see more in less time. I'm not trying to insult you or your plan, but you did ask for input and that is what I am trying to give you based on over 30 years of visiting Switzerland and a total time spent on visits, varying from a couple of days to a couple of months, that probably totals around 2 years. We were all young and less experienced travellers, just as 'millennials' are today.

Most visitors to Switzerland tend to visit the 'usual suspects'. There is nothing wrong with that, they are 'usual suspects' for a reason, usually there is something that attracts visitors, like the Matterhorn or Jungfraujoch. Yet look at the comment by SwissBritMiss who doesn't see the allure of Jungfraujoch. The reason she doesn't if I may try and do a little mind reading is that she had moved beyond the usual suspects in her knowledge. As tourists, we are all drawn to places we have heard of. It is only with enough time and experience in a country that we move on to being a bit more discerning in our choices of places to visit that are not 'usual suspects'. I do think everyone should see the Matterhorn, Jungfraujoch, the Kapellebrucke (Chapel Bridge) in Lucerne etc. But you can do that and not spend all your time doing it at the same time. It's like Niagara Falls to use my example again. You can only spend so much time watching water fall off a rock or gazing at the Matterhorn. It is what you plan to do with the rest of your time that has to also be considered. Again, that depends on what your interests are. It is those interests that should in my opinion determine where you stay. If you want to see Niagara Falls, you don't spend 4 nights staying in N. Falls. You simply day trip from Toronto or wherever else has things of interest to you.

If I want to visit Jungfraujoch, I can stay in Interlaken or one of the busy tourist villages nearby, or I can stay in Meiringen a short train ride away. While Meiringen also has tourists, it is at the same time a real town, with real people, leading real lives. It is the time spent there in between visiting Jungfraujoch etc. that give you a feel for the real country, culture and people. Staying in Wengen, Grindelwald, etc. is nice but in a way, they are not real places. Zermatt started as a small village of farmers at the foot of a mountain, today it is about as 'manufactured' a tourist town as you can find anywhere in the world. It literally has more foreign workers than it has actual Swiss residents.

So my advice is to visit the 'must sees' everyone has heard of but at the same time try to stay in places that are the 'real' Switzerland where possible. We enjoy visiting the Davos-Klosters area, well known to some because it is where Prince Charles and family have gone for winter skiiing, for decades. We go because there is an incredible amount of hiking available within a very small area and with very easy access to all of it But we don't stay in Klosters which is pretty much a 'manufactured' tourist town or even Davos which is a real working town that many find not that attractive for just that reason. It isn't 'touristy' enough for them. We stay in a small nearby village where there is one hotel with the one restaurant in the village. We take the same bus as the local school kids, mothers going shopping in Davos, people going to work, etc. We learn far more about Switzerland from them than from time spent in the 'usual suspects'.

In some travel forums, a common topic that gets people upset is whether there is any difference between a tourist and a traveller. I don't want to start a debate on that subject but I do want to simply acknowledge there can be a difference in what people do when they travel. One person may simply skim the surface and see and do only the 'usual suspect' things, while another may try to get a more in depth understanding of a culture and people. But both can be done in the same amount of time.

A word also on Switzerland being expensive. I disagree with that commonly held belief. You can visit Switzerland on any reasonable budget you may have. JClasstraveller refers to it as 'extremely expensive', in reference to giving up 4 free hotel nights. But you don't give up those 4 free nights, you still have them to use anywhere you want. I'd rather use them in N. America where finding unique independent hotels is not an easy thing to do and staying in chain hotels is the norm. What if I told you JClasstraveller that you could stay in a chain hotel for your 4 free nights in Davos or you could stay in a 3 star boutique hotel with an award winning restaurant in a small nearby village, for $86 CAD for a double room including breakfast. Wouldn't you rather save your 4 free nights for a stay in a N. American hotel somewhere that you can't get for $86 CAD? Which would be better value of your 'free' nights?

People also consider transportation in Switzerland to be expensive. Again, it can be when visiting the usual suspects and paying full fares. But rail passes are a big help there if you work out which one will best fit your needs. Many popular areas for tourists also offer a 'Guest Card' which gives discounts or free travel within the local area as well as discounts on local attractions etc. These offer varying value depending on which area you are in. Those offering the least value are guess where? Yup in the more 'usual suspects' areas. Those offering the best value and that will save you the most money are in areas where you find less foreign tourists and more Swiss tourists. On a 10 day visit to the Davos-Klosters area I estimate that the local Guest Card saves my wife and I around $500 CAD in transportation costs! It gives free unlimited travel on all the buses, trains and cable cars in the area. A single cable car ride one way for one person can be 25CHF per person which means riding that cable car up a mountain to start a hike could cost my wife and I $65 CAD. Then we might still have another ride to pay for back down somewhere!

Food in a restaurant is generally expensive. That I would not disagree with but again there are ways to stay within a lower budget and it is also important I think to understand why it costs what it does. It is actually hard to find a restaurant in Switzerland that does not serve good food. Quality matters more to them than price. Staff are paid a good income. Swiss waiters/waitresses consider themselves to be professionals, not a menial worker and are paid as such. So when comparing restaurant costs, you have to compare apples to apples. You can't compare them to a local 'family restaurant' in N. America. So how to stay within a budget? The answer is the Co-op or MIgros.

Unlike N. American or UK supermarkets, many of the larger supermarkets in Switzerland have a full self-service restaurant in them. The qualify of the food is nearly as good as in a restaurant but the wait staff have been eliminated as you perform that job for yourself. As a result, prices are around half of what you will pay in a restaurant for pretty much the same meal. Fully 95% of the food served in a Co op restaurant is certified Organic.

Finally, a word on weather. As SwissBritMIss says and I have already mentioned, it can vary from valley to valley and why staying as flexible as possible with your plans is always a good thing. We were once in the Interlaken area and got up one morning to find it raining. The forecast for the next few days was for much of the same when we checked with the local Tourist Office. So we hopped on the train and went to Ascona which is in the south of Switzerland. Think palm trees and a lakeside promenade. Not what most people think of when they think of Switzerland is it.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=ascon...w=1366&bih=662

greg5

It's a pretty cool train ride, actually. I enjoyed it, well, at least the first time. And if you're a fan of the movie "The Eiger Sanction", and are observant, you can see the window where George Kennedy rescues Clint Eastwood from the face of the Eiger.

dulciusexasperis

See the mountain peak to the left side in the following photo greg5. It's not the Matterhorn although it certainly looks like it might be at first glance. And no one made a movie with it in the 'frame'.



It is by the way for other readers, the hotel I mentioned that can be stayed at for $86 CAD per night. More photos here:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=hotel...XgfuBbLFoNriM:

Not too shabby for a price you couldn't even find a mom and pop motel room for in most of N. America. So much for Switzerland being 'extremely expensive.'

SwissBritMiss

Davos is my happy place - and I was a little sad that no-one has mentioned Graubunden in their plans

In addition to the Davos Klosters card giving free transport in the region for an overnight stay - even in something as basic as a dorm youth hostel - it also offers a tonne of free activities in summer and peak winter seasons. Summer offers things as diverse as free horse-riding and windsurfing on weekdays (!) as well as all cable cars ; winter offers e.g. free guided ski tours or off piste lessons with a valid ski pass. Before Christmas, a free ski pass is offered for every overnight. Whilst there's not always much open, this last season was superb in December. Plus the Davos to Filisur train ride is just spectacular , over the Landwasser viaduct .

Shuigao, on your plans - as much as Zurich is my city, and living here in summer is fantastic (lake swims every day after work? ), I would take advantage of the hopefully good weather and numerous festivals inthe vicinity. 15 August marks Liechtenstein national day, and you can combine drinks in the Rose Garden with the prince (open to the entire public! ) with a Postbus ride up to Triesen and Malbun in an easy day trip . Steg, on the way to Malbun, with its tiny lake nestled amongst a hamlet of chocolate box houses, is one of the most picturesque places I have ever been - and I live in the Alps and have travelled extensively . August is also the opera festival with a stage on the lake in Bregenz on Lake Constance, made famous by James Bond in Quantum of Solace . Carmen is this year's offering , same as last year. Even if opera isn't your thing , it is a special experience . And the staging for this Carmen is mind-blowing; so much so that when the perseid meteor shower made a surprise appearance last year, I thought it was part of the performance ...

CarlTheWebmaster

Park Hotel Vitznau is nice - we stayed there a few times years ago, but since the renovation it is absurdly expensive. The town is great and a good starting point for hikes on the Rigi and across the lake, but I'd find another place to stay.

Concerto

I love this!!

There's some great advice and tips here, but everybody will have an opinion of course. I don't think the trips by train are an issue or a waste of valuable time, that's part of the experience in coming here. You can really see the country when travelling by train here and you get some great scenery too. I am on the train every single day, and I combine work in one town with rehearsals in another (say Geneva) without too much loss of time in transit. For the tourist, you could hit one place in the first half of the day and have an evening in another (say rooftop bar hopping in the regenerated Flon district of Lausanne!)

Weather is definitely an issue and a certain recent effigy burning session in Zürich (just look up Böögg) predicted a very poor summer. Maybe not so exciting, but there are some world class museums here to fill a rainy day. Here are 4 examples: The Red Cross and Red Crescent Museum in Geneva; the Olympic Museum in Lausanne; the Watch and Clock Making museum in La Chaux-de-Fonds; the Swiss National Museum in Zürich.

I can't imagine who would want to spend even 1 night in Montreux, there is nothing here (I am in Montreux as I write). A nice view of the lake and a walkside promenade that can be enjoyed before 11am and then move on to somewhere real, interesting (re the quotation at the top of this post!). But who comes to Switzerland for the cities?? You come here for the mountains, lakes, forests, glaciers, not the cities!!

Lastly, for me Switzerland is an utter mediocre gastronomic disappointment. I could really understand it if it was located somewhere up by Murmansk, but you have Italy and France less than an hour away from here. You are always paying stupid prices for really mediocre, sometimes downright poor, food. The only way around this is to eat at lunchtime, making use of daily specials, or eat in the cafeteria restaurants provided by the Migros and COOP supermarkets. Another decent self serve is Manora, at the top of the Manor department stores in Zurich and Geneva. There are some secret places and tips, of course, where the cost is justified or you can get a good bargain. But that should probably be the focus of another thread. I get so frustrated by the crap they serve here (I would be more forgiving if the prices were sensible) that I often hop on the train down to Domodossola in Italy, just an hour from work in Sion.

dulciusexasperis

If you take a look at the statistics for tourism by region SwissBritMiss it is interesting to see which regions get more foreign tourists and which get more Swiss tourists visiting them. Graubunden is the number one choice for Swiss to visit while Zurich, Geneva, Lucerne and the Bernese Oberland are the top choices of foreigners. See pages 20 and 21 here: https://www.stv-fst.ch/sites/default...10/StiZ_en.pdf
The numbers make for some interesting reading if someone knows about all the regions but even for a new visitor reading about it here for the first time, the question I would be asking is why is the top pick of the Swiss people themselves a region that most foreigners have never even heard of? Food for thought perhaps.
My wife and I will be staying once again at the hotel above, in June. It's our beyond happy place.

I agree about staying in Montreux Concerto, I would prefer Geneva if I am going to stay somewhere larger than a village in the area. The only exception would be during the Montreux Jazz Festival. A walk on the promenade, a visit to Chateau Chillon and that's Montreux done otherwise.

Interesting to hear your take on food. While in the Swiss German regions I can understand your view somewhat, even there I would rate the average Swiss restaurant offering superior to the average N. American offering. Perhaps your comparisons are more focused on only other European offerings such as in France and Italy which you name. My own favourites are indeed French, Italy and pasta not being as high on my list. I'd put good Greek food ahead of Italian but then I"ve always been one who does not follow the crowd. LOL

PsiFighter37

I'm doing the opposite direction for 2 weeks in late August/early September (although we are only flying out of Zurich) My wife and I have never spent any time in these parts outside of a couple days in Annecy during the winter...as such, we decided to do 2 nights in Geneva, 3 nights in Chamonix (possibly Courmayeur, since it seems to be a bit cheaper), 5 nights in Zermatt, and 3 nights in Como (we have a wedding there, so we have to be here). I'm a little concerned that 5 nights in Zermatt might be too much, but when we spent the late summer in the Dolomites last year, I really, really liked settling down for a decent chunk of time (5+ nights) at one location.

dulciusexasperis

Too much moving for me PsiFighter but that's up to you. I would always agree that spending longer in one place is a good thing but Zermatt would not be my choice for a place to spend the most time. However, unless you say what your interests are, there is no way of suggesting what might or might not best suit your interests.

For example, we really like hiking. If we stayed in Zermatt, the choice of hiking trails; ease of access; cost of access would not compare to some other locations better suited to our interests. If on the other hand, our primary interests were upmarket shopping; souvenir shopping; choice of restaurants; choice of hotels, then Zermatt might well be a better choice than some small mountain village elsewhere with only one hotel, no shopping and only one restaurant in the village.

So the point is that if you are concerned that Zermatt might not be the right choice, you need to say what your interests are if you want people to give you any advice/suggestions.

PsiFighter37

Hiking is the primary goal, and from what I had (have?) read, Zermatt has a good number of trails nearby. Having a choice of hotels and dining options nearby is important as well, and I would rather stay somewhere upscale (since this is our big vacation of the year, I am willing to pay a bit more for it) and have numerous good dining options nearby.