Schengen Transit Visa Mistake. What should I do?
Jan 20, 2018, 2:03 pm
#16
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Welcome to FT. Just seems odd that you would use a California travel agent when you lived in Atlanta, GA. How much money were you trying to save on the tickets? Was it too good to be true? When you looked online for booking the trip what did it price out at versus the trips you booked? Perhaps your 'travel agent' compiled an end to end ticket which didn't fully add up for transit and now you had to pay up because you didn't have schengen transit rights. When you are guests in another country you learn to research these things before you travel and go country hopping because once you depart then all bets are off.
Jan 20, 2018, 2:12 pm
#17
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Yes. <deleted>
Was this a real travel agent or a (cheapie) on line travel agent OTA? (who are really just computer programmers)
Did you make it clear (in an email) the passports of the travellers?
We have seen other threads on FT about the same problem of a "domestic/local" flight in Schengen area.
It is always the travellers responsibility to ensure he/she had the correct documentation for travel.
Did you make it clear (in an email) the passports of the travellers?
We have seen other threads on FT about the same problem of a "domestic/local" flight in Schengen area.
It is always the travellers responsibility to ensure he/she had the correct documentation for travel.
Last edited by TWA884; Jan 20, 2018 at 5:11 pm Reason: Cleanup before move to the Europe forum
Jan 20, 2018, 2:38 pm
#18
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As has been discussed, the OP's sister was denied boarding because she didn't have a Schengen Visa to enter Germany, and then travel domestically to another city. The OP now knows better than to purchase anything from a "fly by night" travel company, in the future, and he may seek recourse, but how he does that is the BIG issue for him as he is in Atlanta and the travel agency is in Cali. The agency will probably throw the onus for the lack of proper paper work back to the OP.
Any discussions with LH, by his sister, at check-in, as to how to rectify the issue, I guarantee was met with, very direct and an always right attitude. Arguing/reasoning was a complete waste of time, as it is in their nature to always be right. It has been my experience that, "Nein!" "Nein!" "Nein!" is usually the most oft-used phrase in Germany. This is not meant as being cynical of any particular nationality, it's just the way it is, and LH has the best of the best. I can pretty much guarantee that the sister spent no more than 1 or 2 minutes at the ticket counter, and heard "Show me your papers", before the agent said, "NEXT!"
Any discussions with LH, by his sister, at check-in, as to how to rectify the issue, I guarantee was met with, very direct and an always right attitude. Arguing/reasoning was a complete waste of time, as it is in their nature to always be right. It has been my experience that, "Nein!" "Nein!" "Nein!" is usually the most oft-used phrase in Germany. This is not meant as being cynical of any particular nationality, it's just the way it is, and LH has the best of the best. I can pretty much guarantee that the sister spent no more than 1 or 2 minutes at the ticket counter, and heard "Show me your papers", before the agent said, "NEXT!"
Jan 20, 2018, 2:44 pm
#19
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Last edited by TWA884; Jan 20, 2018 at 5:11 pm Reason: Cleanup before move to the Europe forum
Jan 20, 2018, 2:45 pm
#20
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Hi shahparshva24!
Since I am a Chinese citizen, I assume you and I have the same situation while dealing with tourism/transit visas in Schengen area.
First of all, did you inform the travel agent that your family hold Indian passports instead of U.S passports? Indians as well as Chinese citizens do need visa to enter Schengen countries.
Second, since your flight involved MUC-FRA route, I believe you need a tourism visa for this route since MUC-FRA is a domestic route in Germany. In order to get to this flight, your family need a visa to go through immigration inspection at MUC and officially "enter" Germany even though your family probably won't go outside of the airport.
Third, neither alrlines is responsible for any visa issues, and the travel agent probably won't admit that they made this mistake, so I think OP would just pay the extra cost to learn this lesson.
Since I am a Chinese citizen, I assume you and I have the same situation while dealing with tourism/transit visas in Schengen area.
First of all, did you inform the travel agent that your family hold Indian passports instead of U.S passports? Indians as well as Chinese citizens do need visa to enter Schengen countries.
Second, since your flight involved MUC-FRA route, I believe you need a tourism visa for this route since MUC-FRA is a domestic route in Germany. In order to get to this flight, your family need a visa to go through immigration inspection at MUC and officially "enter" Germany even though your family probably won't go outside of the airport.
Third, neither alrlines is responsible for any visa issues, and the travel agent probably won't admit that they made this mistake, so I think OP would just pay the extra cost to learn this lesson.
Jan 20, 2018, 3:06 pm
#21
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This appears to be a travel agent mistake - as her itinerary involved a domestic flight within Germany, she would have needed a visa to enter Germany. There is no change in law here - to my knowledge there has never been a country that would allow someone to leave the airport entirely without any sort of visa - which is what you would be doing if you took a domestic flight within Germany (as there is no immigration control for domestic flights, for obvious reason). The airline denied her boarding pass because once they fly her to Munich, they would be obligated to return her to India as she did not have a valid onward boarding pass and did not have a visa to enter the country. There were a few options for you here: You could have asked UA/LH (depending on who the ticket was booked through and who the operating carrier is, both could be possible) to reroute her on an itinerary that stopped only in MUC or FRA - not both (as she would not need a visa to do this given that she has a permanent resident card for the US), or you could have asked them to permit you to change the flight to one at a later date to give you time to acquire the visa.
That being said, you are likely unable to get any help/compensation from the airlines in this case from my opinion - they did nothing wrong. It is the onus of the travel agent and the end user to ensure all immigration requirements are met - and you got screwed by a travel agent who had no clue what they were doing. I was able to find this information in a Google search in about 20 seconds - that a visa would be required for this type of itinerary - and it should be common knowledge to any agent with experience in travel bookings. While I am unsure what the best course of action is (discussing with them or pursuing some other action), I recommend you arm yourself with LH's official page on this (linked below) and request the travel agent reimburse you for the extra charges you incurred due to the travel agent's negligence. That being said, your travel agent likely made you sign some form of contract or terms of service, and they may absolve them of responsibility - just as airlines are not responsible if you don't get the proper visa, the travel agent may not be as well. Your success will likely depend on your politeness and willingness to accept some (not necessarily all) responsibility for this mishap.
https://www.lufthansa.com/online/por...nodeid=3116855
Best of luck.
That being said, you are likely unable to get any help/compensation from the airlines in this case from my opinion - they did nothing wrong. It is the onus of the travel agent and the end user to ensure all immigration requirements are met - and you got screwed by a travel agent who had no clue what they were doing. I was able to find this information in a Google search in about 20 seconds - that a visa would be required for this type of itinerary - and it should be common knowledge to any agent with experience in travel bookings. While I am unsure what the best course of action is (discussing with them or pursuing some other action), I recommend you arm yourself with LH's official page on this (linked below) and request the travel agent reimburse you for the extra charges you incurred due to the travel agent's negligence. That being said, your travel agent likely made you sign some form of contract or terms of service, and they may absolve them of responsibility - just as airlines are not responsible if you don't get the proper visa, the travel agent may not be as well. Your success will likely depend on your politeness and willingness to accept some (not necessarily all) responsibility for this mishap.
https://www.lufthansa.com/online/por...nodeid=3116855
Best of luck.
Cathay Pacific Mumbai-Hong Kong-ATL EL AL Mumbai-Tel Aviv-JFK-ATL
And many other options to avoid the Schengen all together. It all boils down to how the Indian Visa works and its the passenger's responsibility to check on this before purchasing the tickets. Remember the Travel Agent can only advise you but its not their responsibility to check every single Visa Rule but they should be able to direct you to the proper resource.
You could have routed yourself going and coming and avoid Europe all together very easily. Yes the flight may be a bit longer but at least there would not be this issue of returning you back to your origin which would have added more time that you want to spend and more money too.
Its always best to spend a bit more $$$ at the outset knowing that your itinerary meets the Visa regulations and its advisable for you to even call the Indian Embassy in Mumbai before purchasing a ticket to ask them what do you need to do to book a ticket that falls within the regulations of the Indian Passport.
Jan 20, 2018, 3:11 pm
#22
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No fault to the airline, as others have said the denial was correct. Your only recourse is the travel agent and good luck there.
My experience is that travel agents these days are woefully uninformed about the realities of international travel, or even travel in general. (Worst example: My wife booked tickets without giving me a chance to check. When I saw the schedule I immediately realized there was a dangerously short connect in a city notorious for weather-caused slowdowns. I yelped, the travel agent would do nothing about it despite there still being time to fix it. He insisted there would be no problem, they would hold the plane. Come flight day it was raining--I headed to the airport way early and asked to be put on an earlier flight. The check-in agent also saw the problem and was happy to move us. Our scheduled bird landed when we were scheduled to depart, but we did get out of there a bit late.)
My experience is that travel agents these days are woefully uninformed about the realities of international travel, or even travel in general. (Worst example: My wife booked tickets without giving me a chance to check. When I saw the schedule I immediately realized there was a dangerously short connect in a city notorious for weather-caused slowdowns. I yelped, the travel agent would do nothing about it despite there still being time to fix it. He insisted there would be no problem, they would hold the plane. Come flight day it was raining--I headed to the airport way early and asked to be put on an earlier flight. The check-in agent also saw the problem and was happy to move us. Our scheduled bird landed when we were scheduled to depart, but we did get out of there a bit late.)
Jan 20, 2018, 4:00 pm
#23
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As you said "Chermorg" about the contract and terms of service and how they made you agree to it but the situation was different. I was contacting her through my phone via text messages or calls and she send me emails about itinerary prices and timings through emails but in any of this communication she didn't made me agree to any terms of services so do you think I can hold her accountable for her mistake and can get the $1200 refund from her?
Jan 20, 2018, 4:00 pm
#24
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I don't think it would (i.e. it wouldn't) - but I'm also confused on the wording here - a "Schengen transit area" is a bit of an oxymoron - the transit area of an EU airport is by definition not part of the Schengen zone - hence why transit visas are acceptable to transit that area. An airport transit visa is acceptable for this purpose - and appears to be what the other poster is referring to. A Schengen transit visa, OTOH, is more stringent, has fewer exceptions, and is more permissive - it allows someone to fully enter the Schengen zone for a limited time for the purpose of transiting multiple airports, cities, modes of transportation, etc - with the end goal to leave the Schengen zone from a different port of entry/exit from the one they entered in originally. It is this Schengen transit visa that is required for the OP's situation - not the airport transit visa which they would have been exempt from even if needed. The difference between the two is the right to enter the country/Schengen zone - which is effectively what the OP wants to do.
TLDR: "Schengen transit area" is a bit of a misnomer - as the OP was not looking to transit the Schengen area, but instead was looking to transit within the country of Germany by entering the country, proceeding on a Schengen area/domestic flight, and then leaving via a different airport than the one entered at. This by necessity requires the ability to enter the country of Germany, and by effect the Schengen zone.
TLDR: "Schengen transit area" is a bit of a misnomer - as the OP was not looking to transit the Schengen area, but instead was looking to transit within the country of Germany by entering the country, proceeding on a Schengen area/domestic flight, and then leaving via a different airport than the one entered at. This by necessity requires the ability to enter the country of Germany, and by effect the Schengen zone.
However, that "airport transit visa" requirement is waived if you hold, among other, a US visa, or if you are returning from the US.
As for the ATL-FRA-MUC-BOM trip, there a "Short-stay" visa would have been needed.
TL;DR: Travel through the transit area of Scheng airports may in some circumstances require a "Schengen airport transit visa". But in the case at hand, a "Schengen short stay visa" was the one required.
Jan 20, 2018, 5:15 pm
#25
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Moderator's Action
Schengen transit visa issues are most frequently discussed in the Europe forum.
For indexing and future search purposes, we'll move this thread over there.
Thank you for understanding,
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
For indexing and future search purposes, we'll move this thread over there.
Thank you for understanding,
TWA884
Travel Safety/Security co-moderator
Jan 21, 2018, 1:27 am
#26
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This is a so sad story, but is quite often... I don't understand Why didn't she bought, first of all, a ticket BOM-FRA instead of BOM-MUC. LH offers nonstop flights between BOM and FRA, so it should have been in the travel agent system. LH in BOM should have offered you (paying) a reroute on the BOM-FRA-ATL route, instead of the BOM-MUC-FRA-ATL route.
Your travel agent has the knowledge and the tools to find out this, and as you are paying him, he must tell you in advance about the visa issues.
Your travel agent has the knowledge and the tools to find out this, and as you are paying him, he must tell you in advance about the visa issues.
Jan 22, 2018, 12:05 pm
#27
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Now if the TA deliberately booked the worst itinerary, I think you'd have a case!
Feb 14, 2018, 5:30 am
#28
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This is clearly a travel agent issue.
As far as my personal experience has been, the airlines require entry of passenger information including passport information, for international travel.
The process should have turned up the fact that a visa is potentially required. United and a number of other Star Alliance booking sites explicitly note this when booking.
It is possible, though it seems unlikely, that a travel agent would not have seen this warning if booking through some other means - but then again, the travel agent should either know or be aware enough to research that schengen zones do present problems for non-visa waiver country passport holders.
My wife experienced that same situation a few years ago - she has a non-US passport and was booked to transit through 2 stopss which the 2nd was Switzerland. This was 2008 though - right after Switzerland just joined the schengen area so it was much more understandable why she was allowed to board without adequate entry permissions. She was lucky enough that her then United 1K status enabled her to get rebooked for free and escorted through the awkward EU immigration barriers (back then, her "schengen domestic" flight literally did not transit through "international security" so she was screwed.
As far as my personal experience has been, the airlines require entry of passenger information including passport information, for international travel.
The process should have turned up the fact that a visa is potentially required. United and a number of other Star Alliance booking sites explicitly note this when booking.
It is possible, though it seems unlikely, that a travel agent would not have seen this warning if booking through some other means - but then again, the travel agent should either know or be aware enough to research that schengen zones do present problems for non-visa waiver country passport holders.
My wife experienced that same situation a few years ago - she has a non-US passport and was booked to transit through 2 stopss which the 2nd was Switzerland. This was 2008 though - right after Switzerland just joined the schengen area so it was much more understandable why she was allowed to board without adequate entry permissions. She was lucky enough that her then United 1K status enabled her to get rebooked for free and escorted through the awkward EU immigration barriers (back then, her "schengen domestic" flight literally did not transit through "international security" so she was screwed.
Feb 14, 2018, 6:12 am
#29
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I don't agree
It should be glaringly obvious that to take a domestic flight in Germany you need to enter Germany and meet immigration requirements, regardless of the existence of the Shengen zone. If it was, for example CDG-AMS you could understand the passenger being confused about having to go through immigration, even then it is dubious that it is the agent's responsibility to flag it to the passenger.
The fault here lies with the passenger
It should be glaringly obvious that to take a domestic flight in Germany you need to enter Germany and meet immigration requirements, regardless of the existence of the Shengen zone. If it was, for example CDG-AMS you could understand the passenger being confused about having to go through immigration, even then it is dubious that it is the agent's responsibility to flag it to the passenger.
The fault here lies with the passenger
Feb 14, 2018, 8:06 am
#30
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The rule is always the passenger is always responsible for having the right passports (and sometimes needing specific validity periods) / visas etc.
And these days it is easy to get such info via the web before even booking so no need to rely on a travel agent whose knowledge may be sadly lacking.
Flyer Talk is littered with threads like this trying to blame the airline / travel agent for the issue. Yes sometimes airlines deny boarding incorrectly but that does not appear to be the case here.
Book with one airline and you'll get some sort of warning flash up but book with another or TA then the same route generates no warning. For example BA has a pop up that you need to clear before proceeding that warns that flying to Abu Dhabi is not a way to get around the Haaj / Umrah visa restrictions for Saudi Arabia but other airlines don't appear to provide a similar warning that you actively have to clear from your screen.
Anyway it's been over a month since the OP last responded so I doubt we'll here from them again.
And these days it is easy to get such info via the web before even booking so no need to rely on a travel agent whose knowledge may be sadly lacking.
Flyer Talk is littered with threads like this trying to blame the airline / travel agent for the issue. Yes sometimes airlines deny boarding incorrectly but that does not appear to be the case here.
Book with one airline and you'll get some sort of warning flash up but book with another or TA then the same route generates no warning. For example BA has a pop up that you need to clear before proceeding that warns that flying to Abu Dhabi is not a way to get around the Haaj / Umrah visa restrictions for Saudi Arabia but other airlines don't appear to provide a similar warning that you actively have to clear from your screen.
Anyway it's been over a month since the OP last responded so I doubt we'll here from them again.