GUWonder

The mobility rights of EU citizens and permanent residents are subject to national considerations/restrictions based on a limited set of conditions, including concerns about the EU citizen or permanent resident being a threat to public security.

Governments -- EU/Schengen ones and others (including the so-called Five Eyes) -- have been doing extensive legal analysis and in some cases even grooming the grounds, separaretly or jointly, to make adjustments to further monitor and restrict mobility.

Airbridge

The problem with expending time energy and money on making the front door secure against intrusion is that it distracts from the fact that the rear kitchen window is often open

GUWonder

Possible, perhaps even probable, but not necessarily.

Even if that were the case, resources used for one purpose aren't necessarily fungible when it comes to a different (even if perhaps related) purpose.

But the example of the son in the OP's story would approach toward being an example of what you mention in the post.

WilcoRoger

According to the news: "Their passports and identity cards have been confiscated for six months, after which the order can be renewed." It also raises the question, how can they operate in daily life without an ID?

GUWonder

Passports and national ID cards good (at least in some part) for (at least some) international travel either are not or will not be the only forms of ID available to such people. The idea (of how to minimize the success of legal challenges to such approach) is to allow for use of substitute ID docs which don't facilitate cross-border travel (at least not to the extent that passports and national ID cards may) but which do work for "daily life". Of course this does nothing to stop the determined from fraudulently-procuring or otherwise fraudulently-using international travel-enabling passports/national ID cards for purposes of cross-border travel; nor is it an absolute show-stopper for all the other, less regular, legal transport methods used by the so-inclined.

I find the governmental obsession about travel all so interesting when the door to readily accessible weapons is rather wide open -- especially given how ineffective the gun-running interdiction efforts are when it comes to traffic from/via the Czech Republic, Finland and Hungary. It's an interesting use of resources, perhaps sort of like that of locking up an admissible person for days for no good reason.

stimpy

Ah I didn't see that in the first reports, but I see it now. It also says The right to remove passports was introduced as part of a raft of new counter-terrorism laws in November aimed at curbing the number of French citizens leaving to join jihadist groups in the Middle East.

Anyhow I live in France and it is quite rare that I am asked to show an ID. As long as you aren't trying to open a new bank account or something very official like that, and as long as you behave yourself and don't get the attention of police, and as long as you aren't in the wrong place at the wrong time, you won't miss your ID.

stut

Folks, I've deleted a number of disruptive, personal posts from this thread. Please keep it polite and on topic. Apologies to anyone who got their posts caught up in the deletion - it can be a blunt tool at times.

stut
Moderator
Europe Forum

Palal

That's something that only the individual country that issued the permanent status can decide. For example, in Portugal, if you have permanent residency, and go back to your 'country of origin' this does not count as being out of the country in order to "promote relations" between Portugal and your home country.

Also, once you're granted permanent residency status, it's pretty difficult to lose it. The STATUS is permanent, but you have to renew the card every 5 years. There are things you can do to lose it, such as by moving to a different country (except what I said above).

A temporary residency STATUS here has to be renewed every 1-2 years, depending on what you're doing.

Having a permanent status in one EU country is not recorded in any centralized database. Visas do get recorded, but not cards. Using the residency card for ID also doesn't work outside your 'home' country, and a passport is required.

As for stamps - EU law says that if you have a residency card (any type) border agents can't stamp your passport. In practice, national laws are very different and vary from country to country.

GUWonder

Indeed, permanent residence status is hard to lose and up to national determination unless the national determination would run contrary to EU law; but there is nothing at the EU-level to stop any EU country from pulling permanent residence status from someone absent for more than two years unless certain things are involved that toll the two year period.

Short-term Schengen visit and transit visas are indeed in VIS. Other kinds of Schengen visas, not so much. Permanent resident info is indeed not centralized by the EU.

That indeed generally does seem to be the case, but is that formalized in written legal policy at the EU level or at the national level? Or is that just in general practice?

In practice, the residency card doesn't always work for ID even in the "home" countries.

I had thought that was the case, but I'm not sure currently about that part about EU law disallowing stamps in residents' passports. I've seen a lot of US passports of EU member state permanent residents whose passports are chock full of Schengen country stamps from the country of residence and from other Schengen countries.