o mikros

I'm not trying to instigate anything here, just trying to learn.

GUWonder, I was also under the impression that #3 in JamesEaston's post was correct, but that was from hearsay and personal intuition. Can you point me to the relevant statutes regarding admission requirements for those of us who are legal residents of an EU member country?

I'd like to know on the off-chance that something happens and I lose or forget my identiteitskaart while traveling and need to get past the strict passport control in Zaventem.

theddo

The law isn't as clear as GUWunder would have you believe, and I would suggest simply ignoring him.

There is a case which states, clearly, that a residency card is evidence of having rights under the treaty, not the rights itself. Which means that if you, unlike OP's son, chose to appeal the process and have your rights proved you will be allowed entry. OP's son didn't do that, he agreed to be deported which makes everything else moot.

It doesn't matter if he had the right to enter the EU if he said he didn't have the right to enter and would prefer to be deported.

The country you travel to has to help you obtain reasonable documents, as fast as possible, but that doesn't mean they have to trust you until you can prove it.

And since they may want to prove you have a right of residence before allowing you to enter they may hold you until they do so. Most EU related problems aren't resolved fast in my experience.

GUWonder

Examine the court ruling and treaty language applicable to permanent residents and to citizens when it comes to exercising EU mobility rights, or hire someone to do so.

This has become a very well examined legal area by those who have been trying to work within the current legal structures and to modify them to interrupt unlawful human trafficking flows and interrupt the bidirectional flows, legal or not, of persons looking to provide material support to extremist militant organizations.

GUWonder

Unless you are privy to details about the OP's son which were not mentioned in this thread, how did you come with the idea he was deported? Deportation of a person whom the authorities recognize to have a permanent resident right in this area are not lawfully allowed to deport such person unless one of a limited set of conditions are met -- with none of those conditions lawfully affected by the permanent resident card being presented or not.

Unless you know details about the OP's son not presented in this thread, the following sentence is irrelevant to this situation,

for the indications from the OP are that he claimed the relevant permanent resident; and lawful deportation authority of Schengen border officials is legally circumscribed in very clear ways when it comes to EU citizens and permanent residents.

It's legally easier for EU member state governments to invalidate an EU passport, national ID or permanent resident card/permit than it is to revoke the status of citizenship or permanent resident status and deny the exercise of mobility rights for a direct return to residence in the EU when such person shows up at an EU or other Schengen port of entry.

o mikros

Can you point me to the court case you two seem to be referencing? I'm also not sure which "treaty" you mean -- the original Schengen agreement?

GUWonder

Court case? There are numerous ones relevant to such matter. Treaties relevant to this are easily looked up via the UN database and EUR-LEX. There is also Google, right?

If you are concerned about your own situation, I've provided a link in a prior post which indicates who reviews matters in this area and are also in a position to provide information about matters in this area.

WilcoRoger

Given that no EU country can revoke citizenship from a BORN citizen, this is not surprising. Even revoking citizenship of naturalized citizens is (next to) impossible in the countries I know of.

GUWonder

You may wish to review the following (which was requested by HEL officials):

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs...ber2014_en.pdf



Some born citizens aren't as protected as your above comment implies.

WilcoRoger

Thanks for the link - it however speaks about "acquired citizenship" (with the exception of Britain, but they are... well, British )

" 1.Is it possible according to current national legislation or practice to revoke an acquired citizenship on account of being involved in acts of terrorism or other serious crime"

GUWonder

How much spoon-feeding do people want me to do around here?

Read more closely, for it speaks about more than just those who were born without EU citizenship but who acquired it later.

Check out the Netherlands, for example.

As should be obvious by now, this has been a very deliberately considered area.

Do you care to ask me about why the Czech "response" indicated in the doc is what it is? The response to that doesn't involve the eight people shot to death there yesterday allegedly by one man.

WilcoRoger

I did, actually and found this "For the withdrawal it does not matter on which way the citizenship is acquired"

Being born a citizen is not an acqusition of citizenship

stimpy

Not quite revoking citizenship, but France has begun to confiscate passports from French citizens who they believe intend to travel to Syria to support the IS. 6 were reported this week to have been confiscated.

GUWonder

Birth is a way of acquiring citizenship.

This has been a very well deliberated area. The kind of situation mentioned by Stimpy above is the kind of measure that has been increasingly pursued (as a stopgap of sort) because of the challenges with pulling citizenship -- even of the born EU citizens -- and of permanent resident status.

In the Netherlands, those born to Dutch parents as Dutch citizens, and Dutch so-called foundlings (under the law) too, can be stripped of Dutch citizenship as long as they won't be rendered stateless by such governmental act of citizenship revocation. There is more of this in the works too. http://www.government.nl/news/2015/0...tizenship.html

WilcoRoger

This was not under debate. I wonder, though, how this would stand up in a court of law with regards to e.g free movement. In Hungary (I know, it's not France), it's a constitutional right to leave and enter the country for its citizens.

stimpy

Their right to move freely throughout the EU wasn't taken away, as they have that with their French national ID card. It's just their passport that has been taken away. So they cannot leave the EU or Schengen borders.