[Moving to] Geneva
 

Sorry that I'm OT, but hope to call on the wisdom and eperience of the FT community.

I've just received a job offer which will mean relocating to Geneva. I live in Northumberland and have 3 sons (1yr, 9yr & 14yr).

Has anyone got experience of living out there? Pros and cons would be apprciated. I've got a big decision to make. Getting the 14 year old out there would be the tough one.

Thanks

I hear you get to retain Gold with 800 TPs ;)

Get the A-Team on DVD; it'll give you some ideas...

I hope you've negotiated a high cost-of-living bonus! :eek:

I moved to Geneva 2 years ago with my partner for his work so this is one of the rare moments I can contribute something to Flyertalk. We don't have children so my experience will be different but these are my thoughts anyway.

The cost of living is a LOT higher - my guess would be around 30% or so than the UK (although the way the Franc is bouncing around comparisons are difficult). Private medical insurance is compulsory - we pay CHF1200 pm for two. Securing a rented flat was a nightmare but we wanted to live in the centre - my advice would be to look in the surrounding areas (traffic is a lot quieter than the UK). Taxation here is confusing - Geneva has the highest rate (you can save a lot by living in another canton say 30 minutes away) but there are a lot of allowances that bring this down.

In terms of the quality of life - Geneva is great if you have the money to travel around Europe (and particularly if you ski) because it's so easy to get anywhere (and the airport is very efficient) but that's the issue - there's not much going on in Geneva. I don't mean to offend any Swiss on this board but we have the fountain and the watch museum and....er.... that's it. We spend 2 weekends a month somewhere else.

I have friends who are based in Geneva for work. A lot of people live just over the border in France and commute on a daily basis, it would appear to be cheaper in terms of property prices/rent as well as general living costs.

The £/CHF isn't a great exchange rate so prices may appear high if you're paid in Sterling.

Tax wise you'd have to seek specialist advise, as each Canton sets out's own rate. Unless of course your with the UN then you don't pay anything or at least next to nothing.

I've been tempted by a few offers there and would do it for quality of life but cost was against us

Geneva (or Switzerland) is very expensive. Certainly the housing. I've family living there but are retired.
Geneva seems a ideal city to live in; clean and good Public Transport. International but not crowded. I'd look at living near the border in France.

If your kids are in to skiing, sailing, or any activity related to water or mountains then I am sure you can convince them, it is a fantastic area and as said above it is so easy to get around, airport included. Geneva is very expensive, but living just across the border in France is ideal, especially if paid in CHF. If you can negotiate a good deal I would wholeheartedly recommend it and besides that an international experience (however long it will be) for your children is great, I think they will quickly get used to the life-style, which by almost any count is better in my opinion.

As a resident, I can tell you quality of life is second to none, as evidenced in the "best city" polls - expensive, yes, but then your salary should be commensurate - and tax less than UK.

Low crime, low pollution, amenities, community spirit (neat and tidy!), hygiene, skiing, scenery - all second to none.... is it boring? well perhaps for the younger ones, lack of night life etc

Where to live - if not the city, then Nyon is one of the nearer, more affordable lakeside towns with lots of apartments, very attractive & atmospheric old town with schools (international too), shops, amenities, plus excellent rail connection as most of the fast trains make their first/last stop before GVA (about 20mins) - otherwise on the A1 highway, slightly slower in the "rush hour" (it's not LON - lower population!)

Villages around Nyon have apartments / villas too - and surrounded by vineyards / orchards

Have a Google for the expat forums - you will find all the advice you need and more re how to find accommodation / schools / and all the general living info like driving licence, car import, winter tyres, phones, where to buy stuff (yes there's Ikea!) etc

Even an English radio station with BBC news - WRS - plus you can watch all UK TV for free via the internet on zattoo.com

Last but not least - GVA must be one of the few human-scale airports left in Europe - passenger friendly!

Good luck!!

Some good comments so far IMHO - the main attraction of Geneva is easy access to the great outdoors in the form of skiing and lake sailing, plus rapid links to more interesting European places.

Remember that Geneva city is sub 200,000 people i.e. fewer than most London districts (Wandsworth = 260,000) and you'll understand why it feels quite provincial.

I'd suggest englishforum.ch as a source of more information.

I've just moved to Baden area, and it is expensive here in CH. Exchange rate isn't helping, but orange juice is double the price here as in Germany (I go to Germany to do the shopping...it's only 20 minutes!)

If you decide to live in France and work in CH, check the tax situation. I *think* that means you pay CH tax, but it will depend on the FR/CH tax agreement. The Germany/CH one means you pay GERMAN tax...which wipes out any savings from lower rents etc.

14yo could indeed be a problem...does the job offer come with schooling support? At that age, I suspect you will need to put him in an English speaking school. 9 yo should be able to pick up French fast enough to cope, and is at a less crucial stage.

TV is simple to sort out, we get all the BBC and ITV channels in our cable package. Sky can be obtained too...PM me if you decide to move.

Difficult decision for you...good luck!

I worked there for 5 years in the 80's and really enjoyed it. We had two small children then (one was born there) and the quality of life was superb. I was transferred by my employer at the time (an international bank) so all the potentially difficult relocation stuff such as finding accommodation was taken care of which makes a huge difference.

i've lived in and around geneva for 27 years (1983-2009) and have now been living in Vancouver for almost two years.

Geneva was great in the 80s. Virtually no crime, no unemployment, little traffic, etc. In the last 10 years it has gone downhill drastically. Downtown Geneva is a dump. Areas that I used to gladly walk around in are no longer totally safe as they once were (e.g. Paquis in front of the station). So we moved to Nyon, 13 minutes away by train. Well, usually. Whereas in the 80s you could set your watch by the train and you could almost eat off the floor of them since they were so clean, today the train from Nyon to Geneva is late half the time, it is so crowded that even with a first class pass you often find no place to sit and people selfishly occupy two or three seats. The freeway is at a standstill as is most of the city at rush hour. It is so saturated that if there is the slightest mis-hap, the who place just locks up for hours. The police do nothing. I was on the city bus last time i was there and a druggy was "chasing the dragon" right on the bus. This refers to putting heroin on a piece of foil and holding a lighter under it and inhaling the fumes. I actually called the police while this guy was doing that and there response was "what would you like us to do about it?" Check out the open drug scene in front of the cinema just to the left of the train station. go for a walk in park des eaux vives and check out all the deals going on in the bushes but be careful not to step on the used needles. A coworker of one of my good friends who works at caterpillar was stabbed and killed in downtown geneva for his blackberry.
Rent is OUTRAGEOUS and that's IF you can find a place to rent. Another good friend built a duplex (side-by-side) house for a mere 3.5M and rents out the other apartment for well over 10k per month and that's not even in some exclusive neighborhood. You'll be hard pressed to find something suitable for a family for less than 3.5 to 4k/month and it won't be anything special. it's ludicrous.
shops close at 6:30 in geneva during the week, 6 or so on saturday and are closed on sunday. expect very longs lines at all times. Out in Nyon it's even worse since there are only two supermarkets to feed a region of close to 50k and they close even earlier.
i could go on and on but i'll quit here. needless to say, i think geneva sucks. but a lot of brits compare it to the UK and think it's great. "hey, it only takes me an hour to drive to geneva. in london it took me two hours!!!"
check out glocals.com for some info. make sure your contract includes a relocation service. PM me any time if you have specific questions. insurances, doctors, dentists, areas to live, etc.
Be sure to check out schools for your kids if you plan on sending them to english speaking ones (Ecole International in Geneva or Founex) as they have long waiting lists and are quite dear.

I left Switzerland just over a year ago. We lived in Lausanne which is about 45mins from Geneva. As has been stated the Cost of Living is high, but the quality of life is fantastic. It is very safe and the schools are very good with lots of links to UK universities and others.

...and over to the relevant Travel & Dining section for more input.

Swanhunter
Moderator, BAEC