Question about content in Rick Steve's Europe book versus individual city books
Mar 3, 2011, 10:54 pm
#31
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Sacramento, CA, US
Posts: 2,229
Rick Steves is particularly useful for travelers who are seeking the basics.
Many guidebooks attempt to cover everything, a little here and a little there. Telling an infrequent traveler that they can visit anything is not much use. Instead, these travelers benefit from being directed to particular regions of a country and what to do there. Otherwise, the trip could be one confusing mess.
For example, exactly what should one see at the British Museum? Rick Steves has it exactly right when he identifies 10 or so key items. One could opt to see everything and miss important things, or get tired.
The same is true with places to stay or restaurants.
Another thing is that Rick does not cover all regions. He will say, go to Burgundy, and stay in Beaune. That can be helpful advice, because it narrows your choices to a reasonable number. That's enough for most people, especially those with limited time.
So, as a starting point, it makes sense. Many tourists are seeking the basics, and Rick can point you in the right direction. Sometimes, his interests may not coincide with yours, and then you can feel free to look elsewhere for additional information.
Many guidebooks attempt to cover everything, a little here and a little there. Telling an infrequent traveler that they can visit anything is not much use. Instead, these travelers benefit from being directed to particular regions of a country and what to do there. Otherwise, the trip could be one confusing mess.
For example, exactly what should one see at the British Museum? Rick Steves has it exactly right when he identifies 10 or so key items. One could opt to see everything and miss important things, or get tired.
The same is true with places to stay or restaurants.
Another thing is that Rick does not cover all regions. He will say, go to Burgundy, and stay in Beaune. That can be helpful advice, because it narrows your choices to a reasonable number. That's enough for most people, especially those with limited time.
So, as a starting point, it makes sense. Many tourists are seeking the basics, and Rick can point you in the right direction. Sometimes, his interests may not coincide with yours, and then you can feel free to look elsewhere for additional information.
Mar 4, 2011, 12:49 am
#32
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Rick Steves is particularly useful for travelers who are seeking the basics.
Many guidebooks attempt to cover everything, a little here and a little there. Telling an infrequent traveler that they can visit anything is not much use. Instead, these travelers benefit from being directed to particular regions of a country and what to do there. Otherwise, the trip could be one confusing mess.
For example, exactly what should one see at the British Museum? Rick Steves has it exactly right when he identifies 10 or so key items. One could opt to see everything and miss important things, or get tired.
The same is true with places to stay or restaurants.
Another thing is that Rick does not cover all regions. He will say, go to Burgundy, and stay in Beaune. That can be helpful advice, because it narrows your choices to a reasonable number. That's enough for most people, especially those with limited time.
So, as a starting point, it makes sense. Many tourists are seeking the basics, and Rick can point you in the right direction. Sometimes, his interests may not coincide with yours, and then you can feel free to look elsewhere for additional information.
Many guidebooks attempt to cover everything, a little here and a little there. Telling an infrequent traveler that they can visit anything is not much use. Instead, these travelers benefit from being directed to particular regions of a country and what to do there. Otherwise, the trip could be one confusing mess.
For example, exactly what should one see at the British Museum? Rick Steves has it exactly right when he identifies 10 or so key items. One could opt to see everything and miss important things, or get tired.
The same is true with places to stay or restaurants.
Another thing is that Rick does not cover all regions. He will say, go to Burgundy, and stay in Beaune. That can be helpful advice, because it narrows your choices to a reasonable number. That's enough for most people, especially those with limited time.
So, as a starting point, it makes sense. Many tourists are seeking the basics, and Rick can point you in the right direction. Sometimes, his interests may not coincide with yours, and then you can feel free to look elsewhere for additional information.
RS isn't my cup of tea, but I recognize and even know the type of people, good people, he addresses. There's no tiny print, maps are simplified and clear, he spells it out. Folks are still going to get lost, still be intimidated by the language, different foods, currencies, transport - but they are learning.
Internet is great for research, but again, there are a lot of people who don't use the internet that way. I've worked in DP/IT for decades. Some of the finest sysprogs I know wouldn't have a clue how to begin planning a trip. It would never occur to them to start by researching on the internet - maybe google to learn about a specific site, like Giza, but not to actually plan a trip from start to finish.
I'm from Hawaii. I have spent many years trying to answer when folks ask me what to see and do. You know what? Some of these folks have dreamed about Hawaii for years. They may only go one time. They want to see Diamond Head and Waikiki and all the other things that tourists want to see. And honestly, they hope for sights and experiences with a 'wow' factor. Their 'Hawaii' is never going to be the same as my Hawaii and some of my favorite gems would bore them to tears. My idea of 'wow' and theirs is different, but hey, it's my home. Besides, I saw many of the things tourists want to see once myself. Further, sometimes things still deserve a 'wow' even after they have been 'discovered'. And believe me, most tourists in Hawaii will not be there long enough to even begin to see the local culture. They may meet and chat with some locals, but a friendly encounter with a local person is a long long way from really getting into the culture.
Mar 4, 2011, 1:11 am
#33
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I agree .... but it seems to me that by the time people have reached FT and registered they are at a stage when following Rick Steves religously is a missed opportunity. To get here .... they have learned to google, find web sites and they can use Tripadvisor and have registered for FT.
There is a difference between engaging with locals or people who know the places being visited and having a two way dialogue about what they specifically are passionate about and guiding them through it than using RS which I think is for people who cannot use the web ... or is at best a mere starting point. My issue is that many Americans feel secure in RS and spend there time talking to other Americans about what they think about the places they saw from his guides. I quite enjoy helping people who indicate a really narrow passion find things that they wouldn't find by chance through a guide book.
To be clearer ... if they have got this far they should be producing and printing off their own tailored guide to what they want to see and do rather than follow RS. So no objection for people here seeing it a a home reading starting point ... I only feel sorry for people who having come this far simply follow RS religously.
There is a difference between engaging with locals or people who know the places being visited and having a two way dialogue about what they specifically are passionate about and guiding them through it than using RS which I think is for people who cannot use the web ... or is at best a mere starting point. My issue is that many Americans feel secure in RS and spend there time talking to other Americans about what they think about the places they saw from his guides. I quite enjoy helping people who indicate a really narrow passion find things that they wouldn't find by chance through a guide book.
To be clearer ... if they have got this far they should be producing and printing off their own tailored guide to what they want to see and do rather than follow RS. So no objection for people here seeing it a a home reading starting point ... I only feel sorry for people who having come this far simply follow RS religously.
Mar 6, 2011, 9:20 pm
#35
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uk1 and stimpy: ^^ for being willing to share your opinions.
Two comments from me: the first is just to say that I find Steves and his writing style incredibly smarmy and repulsive. He might well feel the same about me if we ever met, but so be it.
Beyond that personal reaction, my real complaint about guidebooks in general isn't so much about their content, but more about how they are used. To me, guidebooks should guide, not dictate every waking moment of a traveler's time in a given city or area. The scariest (and saddest) thing I can think of is that someone would visit a city or area, follow the Gospel According to Steves, and come away with a self-congratulatory feeling that they have experienced the 'REAL" city.
I use books and the Web to nail down the logistical aspects of travel (hours of operation, schedules, transit maps, etc), but I never bring the actual books with me (saves space and weight). I find it far more valuable to use the feeble mind that nature gave me to learn about the history of, and current important issues in, the countries I am visiting.
I recall one conversation I once had with two Greek men. They really opened up when they learned that I actually knew a little bit about Greek politics, could name the prime minister and previous leaders, etc. They were amazed that an American with no specific link to their country (family, etc) had bothered to learn more than the standard tourist-trap aspects. Making this kind of connection is far more important to me than making ticks on a guidebook's checklist of "mandatory" things to see and do.
Two comments from me: the first is just to say that I find Steves and his writing style incredibly smarmy and repulsive. He might well feel the same about me if we ever met, but so be it.
Beyond that personal reaction, my real complaint about guidebooks in general isn't so much about their content, but more about how they are used. To me, guidebooks should guide, not dictate every waking moment of a traveler's time in a given city or area. The scariest (and saddest) thing I can think of is that someone would visit a city or area, follow the Gospel According to Steves, and come away with a self-congratulatory feeling that they have experienced the 'REAL" city.
I use books and the Web to nail down the logistical aspects of travel (hours of operation, schedules, transit maps, etc), but I never bring the actual books with me (saves space and weight). I find it far more valuable to use the feeble mind that nature gave me to learn about the history of, and current important issues in, the countries I am visiting.
I recall one conversation I once had with two Greek men. They really opened up when they learned that I actually knew a little bit about Greek politics, could name the prime minister and previous leaders, etc. They were amazed that an American with no specific link to their country (family, etc) had bothered to learn more than the standard tourist-trap aspects. Making this kind of connection is far more important to me than making ticks on a guidebook's checklist of "mandatory" things to see and do.
Mar 7, 2011, 12:53 am
#36
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Non-NonRev,
You've expressed my thoughts almost exactly. There is a danger that ....... and I mean this nicely ..... that Americans generate the impression in the places that they "travel" to that they make no effort to connect with the real people that live there. The combination of "doing their list" and making no effort with languages contributes to this.
I'm reminded of the very early days of Cumpuserve when my wife and I visited a restaurant in Rome that a few people had mentioned on a Compuserve forum. This was pretty much before WWW had taken off. When we arrived the place was full of Americans and the owner was somewhat bemused and puzzled. I explained to him why his restaurant was full of Americans and tried to explain to him "the internet".
Now - Americans are in danger of going full circle and simply going to places that all other Amercians go to - and as you say - feeling rather smug that they have had imparted some secret that no one else knows.
As I said previously - and excuse my directness - I find myself offering advice and in the end getting the impression that much of the advice provided "in competition" alongside my own is from other people who have visited once and read the same guide book but who are terribly enthusiastic to seem both knowledgeable and relive their own precious memories through posting on FT or Tripadvisor. And Rick Steves creates a deception of which all parties are a willing party to. RS pretends he is imparting some inside secret .... and his readers are willing to be deceived into such nonsense. The impact and reassurance gained by seeing the places - often on TV - before Americans have actually boarded the plane - encourages them not to take the risk of seeing other things .... because they feel reassured by the RS myth and doing what they've seen and is now reasuringly familiar.
What is the point of traveling if all you do is end up in say Paris and spend your time immunised from real people and not leaving with even the slightest impression of what it's like to be French living in Paris and simply doing what every American did on their own previous visits?
My feeling is that everyone who visits a new place should have a visit that is unique and different from everyone elses visit and it should be based to a large extent on their interests. If someone ask you to recommend a good restaurant you shouldn't answer with a list of all the places you read of but you should ask "what type of food do you like?".
I'll give an easy example. I'm currently planning a couple of visits to Singapore. I've been around a dozen times in the last few years. My visits are getting longer and longer and my time in Australia shorter and shorter. And I never eat in restaurants. To understand the people you have to eat where they eat. How often do real Singaporeans eat in restaurants compared to hawker stalls and eating malls.
I hope that Americans will increase their confidence and thoughtfulness and start by saying "This is what I'm interested in ..... what is the French flavour of this?". Or this is my favourite French artist ..... where's the best place to see his work?
Etc etc
You've expressed my thoughts almost exactly. There is a danger that ....... and I mean this nicely ..... that Americans generate the impression in the places that they "travel" to that they make no effort to connect with the real people that live there. The combination of "doing their list" and making no effort with languages contributes to this.
I'm reminded of the very early days of Cumpuserve when my wife and I visited a restaurant in Rome that a few people had mentioned on a Compuserve forum. This was pretty much before WWW had taken off. When we arrived the place was full of Americans and the owner was somewhat bemused and puzzled. I explained to him why his restaurant was full of Americans and tried to explain to him "the internet".
Now - Americans are in danger of going full circle and simply going to places that all other Amercians go to - and as you say - feeling rather smug that they have had imparted some secret that no one else knows.
As I said previously - and excuse my directness - I find myself offering advice and in the end getting the impression that much of the advice provided "in competition" alongside my own is from other people who have visited once and read the same guide book but who are terribly enthusiastic to seem both knowledgeable and relive their own precious memories through posting on FT or Tripadvisor. And Rick Steves creates a deception of which all parties are a willing party to. RS pretends he is imparting some inside secret .... and his readers are willing to be deceived into such nonsense. The impact and reassurance gained by seeing the places - often on TV - before Americans have actually boarded the plane - encourages them not to take the risk of seeing other things .... because they feel reassured by the RS myth and doing what they've seen and is now reasuringly familiar.
What is the point of traveling if all you do is end up in say Paris and spend your time immunised from real people and not leaving with even the slightest impression of what it's like to be French living in Paris and simply doing what every American did on their own previous visits?
My feeling is that everyone who visits a new place should have a visit that is unique and different from everyone elses visit and it should be based to a large extent on their interests. If someone ask you to recommend a good restaurant you shouldn't answer with a list of all the places you read of but you should ask "what type of food do you like?".
I'll give an easy example. I'm currently planning a couple of visits to Singapore. I've been around a dozen times in the last few years. My visits are getting longer and longer and my time in Australia shorter and shorter. And I never eat in restaurants. To understand the people you have to eat where they eat. How often do real Singaporeans eat in restaurants compared to hawker stalls and eating malls.
I hope that Americans will increase their confidence and thoughtfulness and start by saying "This is what I'm interested in ..... what is the French flavour of this?". Or this is my favourite French artist ..... where's the best place to see his work?
Etc etc
Mar 7, 2011, 1:21 am
#37
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I recall one conversation I once had with two Greek men. They really opened up when they learned that I actually knew a little bit about Greek politics, could name the prime minister and previous leaders, etc. They were amazed that an American with no specific link to their country (family, etc) had bothered to learn more than the standard tourist-trap aspects. Making this kind of connection is far more important to me than making ticks on a guidebook's checklist of "mandatory" things to see and do.
Mar 7, 2011, 8:53 am
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 29
Thankfully, I'm fluent in English and Spanish and know a little bit of French and Italian, so the language barrier shouldn't be too bad for me.
Talking to people and getting to know them would be great, but this is my first trip to Europe, so I wouldn't place my priority on that above the major sights. I once got to travel in Central America and got to know several of the locals - even was buying meals from some of them, that was some delicious food.
One of my favorite ways to find out where to eat is to ask locals where they eat. For instance, If I was out at a market looking for artisan goods, I would rather ask those locals where they eat than get the recommendations from a concierge (also likely to save money on costs too). I was in the US, but I got turned on to Thai food this way and have loved it ever since.
Talking to people and getting to know them would be great, but this is my first trip to Europe, so I wouldn't place my priority on that above the major sights. I once got to travel in Central America and got to know several of the locals - even was buying meals from some of them, that was some delicious food.
One of my favorite ways to find out where to eat is to ask locals where they eat. For instance, If I was out at a market looking for artisan goods, I would rather ask those locals where they eat than get the recommendations from a concierge (also likely to save money on costs too). I was in the US, but I got turned on to Thai food this way and have loved it ever since.