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Munich-Hallstatt-Vienna-Prague - Itinerary suggestions?

Munich-Hallstatt-Vienna-Prague - Itinerary suggestions?

Old Dec 8, 2010, 7:08 am
  #1  
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Munich-Hallstatt-Vienna-Prague - Itinerary suggestions?

Howdy FTers,
Just wanted to garner some suggestions for things to do along the way, or things to do in the cities on an upcoming trip before Christmas... its a quick itinerary mainly to "preview" the area of Europe and visit the Christmas Markets... what are your favorite places to see, or restaurants along my route or in the cities I will be visiting? I tend to like grand photo ops, or small untouristy finds... quite a dichotomy I know, haha.

Sunday - 24 hours in London and the Trafalgar Hotel overnight (Thinking Kew Gardens Orchid House, Westminster/BigBen and the tower of London)

Monday -
Arrive Munich 2PM, car rental, drive to Hallstatt Austria and the Heritage Hotel for 2 nights (ice cave, maybe the salt mine?)

Wednesday - Drive to Vienna and the Hotel Imperial for 2 nights (no plans other than the palace, Christmas Markets, and wandering the city)

Friday - Drive to Prague and the Hilton Old Town for 2 nights (Wenceslas sq and prague castle, any recommendations to buy Crystal?)

Sunday - Drive to Munich and the Hilton City for one night, depart for TX Monday at 11AM (the BMW museum?)

I got some amazing advice on the tube in London, and places to see from searching the forum, but didnt see much about Hallstatt or the routes I will be driving (with a GPS of course, haha)

Thanks so much!
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Old Dec 8, 2010, 6:18 pm
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So I have a few questions:

1) Why drive?

2) Why afford Prague the same amount of time as a small village? I'd pick Prague or Vienna and get to know the city a little bit instead of picking out tourist highlights and rushing through...
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Old Dec 8, 2010, 10:21 pm
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1. Driving - Because I am a petrol addicted American... haha, kidding. I like the flexibility having a car offers, and like seeing the countryside with the option of a detour if it strikes me. Also, my family is originally from Moravia, so driving through it (even though it is apparently mostly rolling hills and farmland) is something I've always wanted to do.

2. Devoting 2 nights to Prague, Vienna, and Hallstatt does seem a bit unequal... but we should arrive at the hotel in Hallstatt later on Monday, stay the night, see the ice cave/salt mine and the village the next day, one more sleep, then get up and drive to Vienna, arriving by noon. This is really just a "preview" trip, with the purpose mostly to get a brief feel for the places we visit and see the Christmas Markets, so when planing a future vacation, we can more effectively decide where we want to spend a longer duration to actually get to know the city... Call it speed dating for frequent vacationers.... haha.
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Old Dec 9, 2010, 5:05 am
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No, I'm sorry to say, you are not kidding. Your view of travelling sounds very familiar from others who post here.

Usually, there are several misunderstandings as part of this view. One is that driving in Europe is essentially the same as driving in the US. There are several important differences (part of the misunderstanding): road signs in Europe are completely different than in the US, written signs are in the local language (and many city names are different in different languages), driving in cities is very difficult (when it's not impossible), petrol costs are very high in Europe, some countries require you to buy a special document to drive on their roads and from the national roads you will probably take, the only "options of a detour" you will probably have are when there is road works or too many cars on the road.

There is a reason most Europeans travel by train. One of the most important reasons is that you can look out the window and enjoy the scenery, something you cannot do if you are driving a car. In the end, trains are often cheaper than cars, particularly if you buy tickets early when discounts are usually available. Trains will usually take you to the centre or near-centre of a city and have no parking costs. The chances that people in the countryside in Germany, Austria or the Czech Republic can speak English are not very good. Workers on trains in almost every country in Europe, however, can speak English.

Good luck, in any case.
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Old Dec 9, 2010, 7:13 am
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Well I wouldn't say taking a car is so incerdibly idea, as you said. Taking train is just another, quite good option.

Anyway, pay attention, that in winter, you can easily get to some trables with snow - delays, traffic jams, etc. And can be bit dangerous sometimes. And it will be more expensive - As mentioned, fuel is more expensive, you need to pay toll when you're going on freeway. But driving is not such as crazy and with GPS quite possible. For me Los Angeles is the worst place to drive. No European city can beat that. And you have always option to go, where you want and change planes.
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Old Dec 9, 2010, 7:34 am
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Thanks for the heads up, I think it is important to know the place names in the local languages (Praha, Wien, etcetera) but you can easily just check out Google maps to see the route options and place names, even overlay pictures with GPS tagging to see what sites await your route. Im certainly aware of the vignettes needed to drive the roads in Austria, Switzerland, etc, and after doing some basic web research that any traveler should do, know that I can usually find them at gas stations near the borders, and often at the rental car facility. I have friends who have lived in Germany and in Vienna, so I am well versed on the pros and cons of driving, I personally still chose driving.

I know well that gas will be much more expensive in Europe, but honestly that is not my primary concern.

My primary concern in posting was to see if anyone had any scenic routing recommendations, or places I shouldn't miss along the way, or restaurants that provide an interesting local perspective...
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Old Dec 9, 2010, 8:44 am
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Since this is only a "preview" trip, why don't you ask in the European Rail forum here about this same trip by rail? You have already gotten three "why drive?" responses from local people, which I hope would make you at least stop and think - maybe I should at least look into rail.

Isn't there any expression: When in Rome, do as the Romans do? Or something like that? And why shouldn't that apply to transport?
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Old Dec 9, 2010, 12:37 pm
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Well... from my friend that lives in Vienna, and one that lives in Germany, I was told driving is just as effective, albeit more expensive, and if Europeans didn't drive why would some own cars and the autobahns be legendary? I realize that your obvious preference is rail JoostvD... but this is not mine, and my original query did not request expert opinion on transport, as I am secure in the advice I have already received. But Im glad I was able to help you boost your posting count

Thanks again for all your input, I think I have my itinerary prepared with input from other forums, and am looking forward to a great trip (by Plane and Car, haha)!

Merry Christmas everyone!

Last edited by TXHolmes; Dec 9, 2010 at 1:03 pm
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Old Dec 10, 2010, 3:28 am
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Originally Posted by TXHolmes
Well... from my friend that lives in Vienna, and one that lives in Germany, I was told driving is just as effective, albeit more expensive,
These would not be countrymen of yours, by any chance?
and if Europeans didn't drive why would some own cars and the autobahns be legendary?
Isn't there a rail system in the US? Amtrack? Why would the US have it if no one used it?
I realize that your obvious preference is rail JoostvD... but this is not mine, and my original query did not request expert opinion on transport, as I am secure in the advice I have already received.
So, you are secure only with the advice that matches your preference?

I think one of the best things about travel is to learn about other cultures, not to bring my culture to their place. I'm sorry you don't feel that way.

Good luck and enjoy your trip.
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Old Dec 10, 2010, 8:59 pm
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Understand your desire to drive. Sometimes, I am that way too. When I do, I value the journey just as much as the destination.
Disclaimer: I have NOT driven in the winter. Be sure to check roaod conditions.
I did Austria 5 years ago and had covered quite a bit of ground in about 10 days. Beautiful country! Love the lakes and mountains of Austria (given my home base SFO that is close to many lakes and the Sierra). My photos do not do justice. They should give you some idea. See link:
http://stefanofoto.smugmug.com/Trave...19555984_5tpdL

Here is one suggestion for Monday (you dont have a great deal of daylight if you pick up the car at 2pm; you wont see much other than just driving to Hallstatt). If possible, take an early flight from London. My suggestions here assume you begin in the morning.
From Munich to Hallstatt route (230+ km, no biggie by American standard in driving):
Start Munchen Salzburg Fuschl am See St Wolfgang im Salzkammergut Bad Ischl Hallstatt
Note the shorter day light hours, and your last leg is mountain road driving.
Munchen Salzburg on Autobahn with possible stop in Chiemsee (do your research about it). Depends on time, you might want to sneak into old town Salzburg for a break before the drive up the mountains/lakes region. Suggested stops: Fuschl am See; St Walfgang im Salzkammergut; Bad Ischl, then Hallstatt. Photo-op 360!

I have no recollections about restaurants, sorry. I recall they were all great (apple strudel & lake trout!).

For your Wednesday drive, what I outline would be too much to do in a day. Up to you to sort them out.
Halstatt Ebensee Gmunden Wels Melk Wien. OR if you still have day light, Try from Melk Spitz (along the Donau) WeiBenkirchen in der Wachau Krems an de Donau Wien.

Worthwhile to stop: Gmunden (for scenery), Wels (for architecture); Melk (for Stift/Abbey) Krems (wine town).

No driving experience to share for the balance of your trip.
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 4:22 am
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The reason I asked is because these places are so well connected by the rail network, and in the winter, conditions can be hit-or-miss. Someone mentioned the pileups above, totally true.

See, for example, this incident just two years ago:

The biggest pile-up in Czech history happened on Thursday after one of the countrys busiest motorways, the D1, was blocked by more than a hundred vehicles. They crashed due to heavy snowfall. The massive pile-up trapped around 20,000 people in their cars and rescue workers consider it a miracle that nobody was killed. Still, it took more than 12 hours to clear the motorway so that people could get home.


http://www.radio.cz/en/section/curra...-czech-history
Five days later:

A near 60 vehicle pile-up in heavy snow on Austria's main east-west highway causes one death with six injuries.
Obviously you're free to do as you wish, including being dismissive and rude to those trying to give you good advice. Two days in each of these places isn't enough to see or do much of anything except see the main tourist sites. And if you're driving, one incident (even one that doesn't directly involve you), can throw off the entire plan.
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 4:27 am
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One more thing to consider: if you arrive in Munich in the afternoon, even if you're out of the airport and in your car in an hour, most of your trip will be in the dark. Have you driven in Europe before? Are you sure the Alps, in the dark, in the winter, is the best place to start?

You're getting good advice here, if you don't want to take it, cool, but no need to be insulting to those giving it. I hope you come back and post your experiences driving in Central Europe in the winter.
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 12:54 pm
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I do not feel the original poster was being insulting, probably only frustrating that nobody answers the question, but instead puts down his choice of driving. Rather like answering a request for a good vegetarian restaurant by saying you need to eat meat to be healthful, that to me is insulting.

I live near Wien and know the routes well, yes there can be delay or danger on the roads, but I have also seen both on a train as well. Be vigilant and you will have a safe and enjoyable time.

While in vienna you should try the cafe central, and take in an opera, often standing room is available with same day performances.
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Old Dec 11, 2010, 1:48 pm
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Understand that david, but I think if someone comes looking for advice and the best advice is to change their plans, it's ok to say that.

In my opinion, this is too much to do in too few days. In my opinion, driving is a really bad idea...to say nothing of driving through the Alps at night in the middle of winter after getting off a plane, Prague is usually congested during the day. Parking is nearly impossible in the middle, unless the hotels offers it, in which case it will be quite expensive. If the OP insists on seeing all of these places in a short amount of time, train travel seems far preferential because it will greatly reduce stress, make things much easier, save a lot of money, and will allow him to actually interact with humans in a relaxing atmosphere instead of isolating himself in a stressful situation.

Just my opinion.
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Old Dec 12, 2010, 12:20 am
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A bit late, but here goes:

Driving is not such a bad idea as the distances are relatively short. The train is also rather expensive, so costs for driving wll not be so high. Driving the alps is rather scenic, and I actually prefer it to the train (note:I live in Austria and do this a lot). It really depends on the weather, which is expected to be a bit warm (in Austria).

As for the itinerary, Hallstatt is a rather great place to visit, although I have only been there in summer. There is good hiking and it is really an idyllic mountain village. 2 days might be more than needed in winter. If OP skis, then the Salzkammergut is a great area for this and there are lots of winter activities IF he has the proper attire. If not, Salzburg is really close and can be done as a day trip if needed. I imagine that there is enough to occupy OP for 2 days. For restaurants, the village is small and there was not too much to chose from. Most of the better places were down by the lakefront.

As stated earlier, the bigger cities would make more sense. Vienna is worth 3 days, especially with the Christmas markets. Lots to see and do in December. Prague is doable in 2 days and I am sure OP can manage an extra day if his/her schedule changes.

Just saw the routings offered by allset2travel, and they are good ideas. Just check the weather first as driving in bad weather is not recommened, even on the Autobahns. If the weather is good, then these suggestions are good.

One last thing, there were recently several posts by abhilfe (?) about a similar itinerary, including Hallstatt. Could be worth a PM!

Last edited by livious; Dec 12, 2010 at 12:27 am
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