EK Customer Affairs - AKA Ghost Town
Jan 7, 2019, 7:43 pm
#31
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,307
The schedule change/cancellation timing may be critical as there is a two week notification clause in EC261 which might come in to play. To find out if it your flight's schedule was changed rather than being cancelled you need access to flightradar (or similar) historical data which you may have to pay for, although I think somewhere on Flyertalk is a thread where people post requests and those with paid access provide the information.
Jan 8, 2019, 12:55 pm
#32
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: AK MVP Gold, EK Gold, LH Silver, Hyatt Gold, BW Gold, Avis Preferred, NationalCar Emerald
Posts: 97
The schedule change/cancellation timing may be critical as there is a two week notification clause in EC261 which might come in to play. To find out if it your flight's schedule was changed rather than being cancelled you need access to flightradar (or similar) historical data which you may have to pay for, although I think somewhere on Flyertalk is a thread where people post requests and those with paid access provide the information.
Jan 9, 2019, 8:46 pm
#33
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
The schedule change/cancellation timing may be critical as there is a two week notification clause in EC261 which might come in to play. To find out if it your flight's schedule was changed rather than being cancelled you need access to flightradar (or similar) historical data which you may have to pay for, although I think somewhere on Flyertalk is a thread where people post requests and those with paid access provide the information.
EK have a record of being evasive when it comes to EC261, so using the likes of Bott & Co might be worth while even though it costs 35% of the income.
Jan 9, 2019, 9:00 pm
#34
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,307
I'm not sure of the legalities etc, but I seem to remember reading that all they have to do is prove they sent it, not that the intended recipient received it, which opens another can of worms. It can all get very messy.
Jan 9, 2019, 9:08 pm
#35
Moderator: Emirates Skywards and Qatar Airways Privilege Club
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: 12R/30L
Programs: EK Gold|EY Gold|Bonvoy Ambassador| IHG Plat|HHonors Diamond
Posts: 2,818
Yeah, the issue here is that they have been unable to provide proof that they did contact me I believe? If the flight was changed or cancelled I believe they have to provide proof that I was personally informed and they have failed to do that, but I want to find out if even the "schedule change" was true before I go back to them or to a lawyer. So thanks for the tip about having a look on FT for someone who can help me out.
Jan 10, 2019, 2:50 pm
#37
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: AK MVP Gold, EK Gold, LH Silver, Hyatt Gold, BW Gold, Avis Preferred, NationalCar Emerald
Posts: 97
Agreed, so it really comes down to the notice and the burden of proof question. The fact that they claim to have sent me an email AND and SMS and neither were received (details have been verified as correct) would suggest that they did not actually contact me. And email being sent is one thing, but SMS messages are logged with phone companies and there is no record with my provider of having received an SMS on that day. I agree, I will probably have to lawyer up on this, which is disappointing and expensive, but I don's see many other options. I have given them 14 days, so I will keep you all posted.
Jan 10, 2019, 3:04 pm
#38
Join Date: Jun 2014
Programs: EY
Posts: 852
Did you get any type of compensation/reimbursement for not getting First class, which you paid for?
Jan 10, 2019, 8:07 pm
#39
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
Agreed, so it really comes down to the notice and the burden of proof question. The fact that they claim to have sent me an email AND and SMS and neither were received (details have been verified as correct) would suggest that they did not actually contact me. And email being sent is one thing, but SMS messages are logged with phone companies and there is no record with my provider of having received an SMS on that day. I agree, I will probably have to lawyer up on this, which is disappointing and expensive, but I don's see many other options. I have given them 14 days, so I will keep you all posted.
Jan 16, 2019, 10:49 am
#40
Original Poster
Join Date: Oct 2011
Programs: AK MVP Gold, EK Gold, LH Silver, Hyatt Gold, BW Gold, Avis Preferred, NationalCar Emerald
Posts: 97
I received this from emirates today:
"In accordance with the EC regulation 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of the European Union, you are entitled to EUR600.00 (Euros Six Hundred only). Please be advised that this is the maximum settlement and any additional expenses incurred, which are not coved by the amount above should have been claimed on your own travel insurance.
The Emirates Skywards miles (30,000 miles) that were initially credited to your account have now been cancelled.
In order for us to process the payment, please ensure that you complete the attached form, manually sign on them, and return a clear scanned copy to me along with a copy of your passport (photograph page), quoting reference DXB/X/SU/xxxxxx/xxxxxxx in your return email. Signatures on the form and passport must tally; virtual signatures are not accepted.
Emirates will process the payment upon receipt of the completed and signed documents, within 21 working days.
Thank you for writing to us, and for allowing me to respond.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Affairs"
Taking back to 30,000 miles they credited for the inconvenience is mean spirited of them, but does not surprise me. Can anyone confirm if they are correct about the expenses? I am pretty sure that the law says that I am entitled to expenses on top of the €600?
"In accordance with the EC regulation 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of the European Union, you are entitled to EUR600.00 (Euros Six Hundred only). Please be advised that this is the maximum settlement and any additional expenses incurred, which are not coved by the amount above should have been claimed on your own travel insurance.
The Emirates Skywards miles (30,000 miles) that were initially credited to your account have now been cancelled.
In order for us to process the payment, please ensure that you complete the attached form, manually sign on them, and return a clear scanned copy to me along with a copy of your passport (photograph page), quoting reference DXB/X/SU/xxxxxx/xxxxxxx in your return email. Signatures on the form and passport must tally; virtual signatures are not accepted.
Emirates will process the payment upon receipt of the completed and signed documents, within 21 working days.
Thank you for writing to us, and for allowing me to respond.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Affairs"
Taking back to 30,000 miles they credited for the inconvenience is mean spirited of them, but does not surprise me. Can anyone confirm if they are correct about the expenses? I am pretty sure that the law says that I am entitled to expenses on top of the €600?
Last edited by Saltire74; Jan 16, 2019 at 3:25 pm Reason: Removal Of reference number
Jan 16, 2019, 11:17 am
#41
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Economy, mostly :(
Programs: Skywards Gold
Posts: 7,801
I received this from emirates today:
"In accordance with the EC regulation 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of the European Union, you are entitled to EUR600.00 (Euros Six Hundred only). Please be advised that this is the maximum settlement and any additional expenses incurred, which are not coved by the amount above should have been claimed on your own travel insurance.
The Emirates Skywards miles (30,000 miles) that were initially credited to your account have now been cancelled.
In order for us to process the payment, please ensure that you complete the attached form, manually sign on them, and return a clear scanned copy to me along with a copy of your passport (photograph page), quoting reference DXB/X/SU/xxxxxx/xxxxxxxin your return email. Signatures on the form and passport must tally; virtual signatures are not accepted.
Emirates will process the payment upon receipt of the completed and signed documents, within 21 working days.
Thank you for writing to us, and for allowing me to respond.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Affairs"
Taking back to 30,000 miles they credited for the inconvenience is mean spirited of them, but does not surprise me. Can anyone confirm if they are correct about the expenses? I am pretty sure that the law says that I am entitled to expenses on top of the €600?
"In accordance with the EC regulation 261/2004 of the European Parliament and of the Council of the European Union, you are entitled to EUR600.00 (Euros Six Hundred only). Please be advised that this is the maximum settlement and any additional expenses incurred, which are not coved by the amount above should have been claimed on your own travel insurance.
The Emirates Skywards miles (30,000 miles) that were initially credited to your account have now been cancelled.
In order for us to process the payment, please ensure that you complete the attached form, manually sign on them, and return a clear scanned copy to me along with a copy of your passport (photograph page), quoting reference DXB/X/SU/xxxxxx/xxxxxxxin your return email. Signatures on the form and passport must tally; virtual signatures are not accepted.
Emirates will process the payment upon receipt of the completed and signed documents, within 21 working days.
Thank you for writing to us, and for allowing me to respond.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Affairs"
Taking back to 30,000 miles they credited for the inconvenience is mean spirited of them, but does not surprise me. Can anyone confirm if they are correct about the expenses? I am pretty sure that the law says that I am entitled to expenses on top of the €600?
Last edited by Saltire74; Jan 16, 2019 at 3:27 pm Reason: Removal of ref. no. From quoted post
Jan 16, 2019, 12:00 pm
#42
Ambassador: Emirates Airlines
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Manchester, UK
Posts: 18,611
Not completely. I'm not sure what expenses are being claimed (I can't face reading the OP again), but EK have a "Duty of Care" on top of the €600. So, if a flight cancellation meant that an overnight in a hotel was required, EK would need to provide this or pay up in the case the the passenger needed to book for themselves. Similarly, meals and transport would also need to be provided.
Jan 16, 2019, 12:54 pm
#43
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Melbourne
Programs: ►QFWP/LTG►VA WP►HyattExpl.►HiltonGold►ALL Silver
Posts: 21,993
Under EU261/2004 you are certainly entitled to duty of care related expenses. It is not up to EK to tell you to use Travel Insurance.
Jan 18, 2019, 8:25 am
#44
Join Date: May 2009
Location: SIN (with a bit of ZRH sprinkled in)
Posts: 9,454
Indeed does the law says so.
Hotel, reasonable costs for food/beverages (usually airlines provide vouchers with quite stingy amounts or for buffets) and other costs directly related to the delay (like calls to inform work/family, or extra taxi costs) are covered on top of the fixed sum.
I'd remind customer affairs of the law, they seem not to be familiar with it.
Hotel, reasonable costs for food/beverages (usually airlines provide vouchers with quite stingy amounts or for buffets) and other costs directly related to the delay (like calls to inform work/family, or extra taxi costs) are covered on top of the fixed sum.
I'd remind customer affairs of the law, they seem not to be familiar with it.
Jan 19, 2019, 12:31 am
#45
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 6,349
The expenses the OP outlined are not duty of care expenses (changes to car rental, lost train fare, mileage, lost work time etc). EK are indeed quite right to advise OP to claim on travel insurance although perhaps less abrupt language could have been used.