|
Two scary go arounds in Seattle [A6-EGC EK229/03JULY2018]
EK 229 from DXB had to go around twice yesterday for seemingly unexplained reasons . First it was supposedly cross traffic? And the second almost a lasr second escape i think was explained with a trembling voice as cross wind ? . The plane shuddered and shook each time and it scared even this 45 years of flying writer . Third time was a charm . Thank god |
Looks like it ended up landing in the opposite direction from initially planned too.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...2d3a510d95.jpg |
Probably varying and changing wind conditions
|
Welcome to Flyertalk @Selkorah.
Go arounds are rare, double ones even more so. Glad you made it in ok. |
Originally Posted by Selkorah
(Post 29937287)
EK 229 from DXB had to go around twice yesterday for seemingly unexplained reasons . First it was supposedly cross traffic? And the second almost a lasr second escape i think was explained with a trembling voice as cross wind ? . The plane shuddered and shook each time and it scared even this 45 years of flying writer . Third time was a charm . Thank god |
I was on this flight watching the approach on the video. It was a crystal clear day in Seattle. Came in wobbling on both missed approaches. Announcement after first go around was made by same Venezuelan Captain who had introduced the crew in DXB, said go around was due to "...er, traffic". Second missed approach announcement had a British accent, the trembling voice as noted by OP, was attributed to winds. The entire airfield looked clear at least on the video and felt like we were about to touchdown both times. Changed direction for the third approach, came in smooth and landed. Something seemed amiss, wondered if a rookie was involved.
|
This could be normal go-arounds, but recent approach-related accidents with Emirates planes are concerning. Last year there were 2 near-crashes with A380 in DME and JFK when aircraft was 500 ft and 200 ft AGL and several miles away from runway (in case of DME not even on the approach path). And earlier there was 777 crash-landing in DXB during failed go-around.
There are commom complains from this part of the world about pilots not getting enough rest and working extra hours. Also recent FlyDubai crash in Rostov and similar complains about pilots fatigue from FlyDubai pilots. I do not want to draw any conusions until investigations complete, but the trend is very alarming. |
Originally Posted by msea
(Post 29946786)
I was on this flight watching the approach on the video. It was a crystal clear day in Seattle. Came in wobbling on both missed approaches. Announcement after first go around was made by same Venezuelan Captain who had introduced the crew in DXB, said go around was due to "...er, traffic". Second missed approach announcement had a British accent, the trembling voice as noted by OP, was attributed to winds. The entire airfield looked clear at least on the video and felt like we were about to touchdown both times. Changed direction for the third approach, came in smooth and landed. Something seemed amiss, wondered if a rookie was involved.
I sometimes prefer that pilots lie rather than say "we were inches of being caught in a shear wind and end-up flat like a french crepe on the tarmac". |
I've experienced one go-around (at JFK) and it was intense - I remember the high vibrations/shaking as well. Glad you landed safely!
|
Originally Posted by AntonS
(Post 29946964)
This could be normal go-arounds, but recent approach-related accidents with Emirates planes are concerning. Last year there were 2 near-crashes with A380 in DME and JFK when aircraft was 500 ft and 200 ft AGL and several miles away from runway (in case of DME not even on the approach path). And earlier there was 777 crash-landing in DXB during failed go-around.
There are commom complains from this part of the world about pilots not getting enough rest and working extra hours. Also recent FlyDubai crash in Rostov and similar complains about pilots fatigue from FlyDubai pilots. I do not want to draw any conusions until investigations complete, but the trend is very alarming. |
Originally Posted by wxman22
(Post 29949485)
This sounds more like the KAL issue of pilots hardly flying the plane versus flying too much.
|
Originally Posted by AntonS
(Post 29946964)
There are commom complains from this part of the world about pilots not getting enough rest and working extra hours. Also recent FlyDubai crash in Rostov and similar complains about pilots fatigue from FlyDubai pilots. . |
Originally Posted by ekfb
(Post 29960237)
Not like the other part of the world where Air Canada landed on taxiway in SFO |
<avgeek>
ATC audio from LiveATC (EK229 checks on at 1:49): http://archive-server.liveatc.net/ks...2018-2000Z.mp3 - not sure if this is the first or second attempt. First wind check for EK229 was given as 250 @ 7 kts - a direct crosswind, changing to 280 @ 8 just before landing on the south runways (160 degrees), so a ~7kt cross and ~4 knot tailwind. Max tailwind for 77W is 15kts, max demonstrated crosswind is 38kts - well within the limits but probably disconcerting after 14 hours of flying. I don't like making crosswind landings in a C172 fully awake. Those onboard - did the plane feel like it was chasing the centerline the whole time? Relevant METAR: KSEA 031953Z 26007KT 10SM FEW025 FEW200 19/08 A3014 RMK AO2 SLP212 T01940078 </avgeek> |
What made the go-arounds ‘scary’? They’re a well rehearsed and straightforward maneuvre. If the weather was as suggested, then the conditions are benign - 7kts crosswind in a 777 really is nothing. Are you sure the pilot’s voice was trembling? The plane will shudder & shake, as the application of take-off thrust is made, much like an actual take-off. Seattle often runs runway spacing quite tight, so could that be an explanation for the go-around? |
Thank you Metanoia, interesting to hear the ATC audio clip. It appears the second go around is at 3.45 in the clip and the third approach that finally landed comes up at 16.35 followed by ground point instruction soon after. Looking at the fwd cam it felt like he had a hard time controlling roll on both missed approaches. I remember thinking this is going to be interesting. Third approach was markedly smoother. Audio clip indicates other flights taking off and landing in the same direction around that time, and also mentions flow switch coming up. If tailwind and crosswind were well within the capability of 77W makes me wonder if whoever was at the controls was upto the task. EK voice with ATC sounds like the one that made the first cabin announcement but not the second. |
Originally Posted by msea
(Post 29968505)
Thank you Metanoia, interesting to hear the ATC audio clip. It appears the second go around is at 3.45 in the clip and the third approach that finally landed comes up at 16.35 followed by ground point instruction soon after. Looking at the fwd cam it felt like he had a hard time controlling roll on both missed approaches. I remember thinking this is going to be interesting. Third approach was markedly smoother. Audio clip indicates other flights taking off and landing in the same direction around that time, and also mentions flow switch coming up. If tailwind and crosswind were well within the capability of 77W makes me wonder if whoever was at the controls was upto the task. EK voice with ATC sounds like the one that made the first cabin announcement but not the second. |
So, we made it in one go today at SEA. But there was turbulence for sure, much more than what I have experienced at other airports, so the plane landed fast and hard. And for some reason, the plane seemed to be perpetually in a slight right bank in the final minute or so of our landing. Bummer was the 1 hour or so hold in the corridor for Passport Control.
|
Originally Posted by skywardhunter
(Post 29968731)
There are many other factors than just pure wind speed and direction. There could be wind sheer of varying levels at varying altitudes, as well as different layers of turbulence, changing wind djrectidias you descend, and random pockets of turbulence and thermals.
|
Off nominal events occur due to some combination of environmental, machine, and human factors. One doesn't exhaust one category before moving on to another in seeking causal factors. Only EK knows the string of events that lead to this particular incident. We can only speculate here. The OP and I were on board. We all have our reasons for ascribing cause, and as my long haul airline of choice I am as keen as the next guy in wanting EK to be beyond reproach, but my hunch is that human factors played the most significant role that day. The fact that EK has had approach issues in the recent past only adds to the disconcertment.
|
Originally Posted by msea
(Post 30000697)
Off nominal events occur due to some combination of environmental, machine, and human factors. One doesn't exhaust one category before moving on to another in seeking causal factors. Only EK knows the string of events that lead to this particular incident. We can only speculate here. The OP and I were on board. We all have our reasons for ascribing cause, and as my long haul airline of choice I am as keen as the next guy in wanting EK to be beyond reproach, but my hunch is that human factors played the most significant role that day. The fact that EK has had approach issues in the recent past only adds to the disconcertment.
|
Originally Posted by DYKWIA
(Post 30002984)
If this had been anything other than a normal situation, it would have been plastered all over pprune by now.
|
| All times are GMT -6. The time now is 6:42 pm. |
This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.