New 777 J seat announced

Old Mar 12, 16, 4:07 am
  #106  
 
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Must say, skywardhunter, your staunch defence of Emirates throughout this thread has been admirable !! It's pretty clear you are perfectly happy with what - by current & ongoing standards - will be an increasingly outdated config when their new 777 seat comes into being.

However, whilst you are of course perfectly entitled to your own opinion (of which I have no criticism), you must, equally, accept that however hard you try to convince others that the new layout is 'a good thing', there are self-evidently many who disagree. And, in some cases, they will disagree strongly. Several of those alternative views have been voiced here (and there will undoubtedly be many more who do not frequent internet blogs or forums etc.)

As some posters have indicated, it is unrealistic to imply that frequent flyers (and very often, infrequent too) do not look carefully at configs and individual seats when choosing a carrier. Sites such as seatguru and seatplan etc developed to cater to those very demands for information & detailed knowledge.

I myself am an Emirates fan and have travelled with them (albeit with various gaps over the years) since 1986. But I do believe in looking at what is out there, and competition is always healthy. I am halfway through a trip to Australia & NZ, with several countries visited en route. I wanted to be sure of a solo seat on all the lengthy sectors : personal space, with no risk of having to climb - or being climbed - over. I was happily able to enjoy this on CX, NZ, and QR (the latter not a 777 but a 787). The fare, in J throughout, was less than the EK equivalent, and service was just as good ; in fact NZ I would say was better.

I can't imagine what would now encourage me to go for a 2-3-2 aircraft when 1-2-1 is so widely available on quality carriers.

As an aside, I will be flying Melbourne to Perth with QF at the end of the month. It's a four hour sector approx and QF are using A330's with a 1-2-1 config in J, with 28 seats. Ironically, I used Skywards miles to get award seats. And when QF can offer 1-2-1 even a four hour domestic, it really does make it that much harder to be satisfied with EK's 777 for much longer sectors.
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Old Mar 12, 16, 4:36 am
  #107  
 
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Originally Posted by subject2load View Post
Must say, skywardhunter, your staunch defence of Emirates throughout this thread has been admirable !! It's pretty clear you are perfectly happy with what - by current & ongoing standards - will be an increasingly outdated config when their new 777 seat comes into being.

However, whilst you are of course perfectly entitled to your own opinion (of which I have no criticism), you must, equally, accept that however hard you try to convince others that the new layout is 'a good thing', there are self-evidently many who disagree. And, in some cases, they will disagree strongly. Several of those alternative views have been voiced here (and there will undoubtedly be many more who do not frequent internet blogs or forums etc.)

As some posters have indicated, it is unrealistic to imply that frequent flyers (and very often, infrequent too) do not look carefully at configs and individual seats when choosing a carrier. Sites such as seatguru and seatplan etc developed to cater to those very demands for information & detailed knowledge.

I myself am an Emirates fan and have travelled with them (albeit with various gaps over the years) since 1986. But I do believe in looking at what is out there, and competition is always healthy. I am halfway through a trip to Australia & NZ, with several countries visited en route. I wanted to be sure of a solo seat on all the lengthy sectors : personal space, with no risk of having to climb - or being climbed - over. I was happily able to enjoy this on CX, NZ, and QR (the latter not a 777 but a 787). The fare, in J throughout, was less than the EK equivalent, and service was just as good ; in fact NZ I would say was better.

I can't imagine what would now encourage me to go for a 2-3-2 aircraft when 1-2-1 is so widely available on quality carriers.

As an aside, I will be flying Melbourne to Perth with QF at the end of the month. It's a four hour sector approx and QF are using A330's with a 1-2-1 config in J, with 28 seats. Ironically, I used Skywards miles to get award seats. And when QF can offer 1-2-1 even a four hour domestic, it really does make it that much harder to be satisfied with EK's 777 for much longer sectors.
1. I didn't imply frequent flyers don't look at configs. I said most people, and I stand by that statement. We are a very small subset of airline passengers with very specific knowledge of the products available.

2. I choose EK for schedule primarily. I used to fly primarily SAA and loved them, and it was hard saying goodbye but these days for me EK is better. That doesn't mean I choose EK over other carriers at all costs. In fact I am flying EY J tomorrow night instead of EK, because it was significantly cheaper (but the schedule and routing is so bad I in fact would prefer EK Y after having flown the outbound last month).

3. I didn't say it is a "good thing", and in fact stated earlier in the thread that given the implementation timeline and lack of retrofit the new seat will already be outdated. However I admire well-run businesses, being an entrepreneur myself and my travel being paid for by my company. I think Emirates is extremely well-run and I admire it. Emirates offers me good flight options with good consistent service and transit and an overall pleasant experience. I'd hate for that to go away, thus am interested in the company being successful. I also understand the need for product differentiation and I still think that this is the right move by EK. Just because all other carriers are going for lower density luxury options in J (the direct aisle JL config notwithstanding, though arguably even that is lower density, given the need to remove some Y rows to fit it in), doesn't mean it's the right thing to do product-wise. A lot of other carriers don't offer F or only offer it on some routes, whereas EK is a more or less full three-class carrier. They're marketing business class to business people, and they carry a lot of them, business is for a upper-class comfortable travel experience for executives, first class is for luxury. That's how EK is positioned and I think it makes sense for their business model.

4. The need to step over someone's legs or be stepped over is completely blown out of proportion by FlyerTalkers, it's a disturbance, but it doesn't define the entire aviation experience, and given all the rest of the EK J and overall experience I still find it to be more consistent than most other carriers. I can trust EK to get things done in a professional manner, with no unexpected f*** ups along the way. That's professional courtesy to their customers and most airlines lack it.

I don't see a need to "conform" to the majority view. On FT when a poster makes some good points or there's a general sentiment towards a product/service/carrier people tend to jump on the bandwagon, despite there sometimes being legitimate counter-balancing viewpoints.

I've surely had some bad EK experience, too. And in fact being a lowly Y traveller most of the time when I get op-upped I get the dreaded E seat on the 777 (and I only fly 777 as no 380 on my routes). I still manage to enjoy it. Having flown J on SAA several times and now on EY, and having flown in an F suite on the EK A380, I am overall quite happy with the EK J product, yes. I take more offense at airlines like EY that sell you EY J then put you in 9W J, or airlines like AI or SG that sell you at 5pm flight then move it to 11am and tell you the day before. Those things hardly happen on EK IME.
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Old Mar 12, 16, 8:41 am
  #108  
 
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Well, as already mentioned, it's become a pretty simple decision for me :
If I can get the route/timing I want, with a J class config of 1-2-1, on a carrier that I know will provide good service + competitive prices (not too difficult the way the biz class market is these days), then I have virtually zero inclination to go 2-3-2.

I will happily continue to fly EK on their 777's in F (where I feel the trip warrants F), and also the 380 in either F or J (although not overly-keen on the 76 capacity cabin when full)

That said, if you can guarantee me Scarlett Johansson as my neighbour on an EK 777 in J, then I'll have no issues at all with their more crowded 2-3-2. Sadly it ain't never gonna happen ...... she'll be tucked away in her F suite ......
Or else on NetJets ........
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Old Mar 12, 16, 10:42 am
  #109  
 
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Originally Posted by skywardhunter View Post
I also think that EK is a very well run company, hiring very competent expat managers.
Nevertheless, I'm not a shareholder, I'm a client. Therefore, I will see my own egocentric benefit first, and 1-2-1 is definitively better than 2-3-2.

I have the chance to fly B777 J almost exclusively on short haul, and actually, the angled flat seat is very convenient as I can climb over my aisle neighbor more easily.
Now, with this mini-bar and stool, I'm less enthusiastic, all the more that bulkhead seats seem to have less space.

We, FTers, may not be representative of the average flyer, but, businessmen flying J will check ahead their working conditions : chauffeur, lounge, wifi, privacy, power outlet, flat bed, etc. 2-3-2 is a no-no to work onboard.
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Old Mar 12, 16, 12:07 pm
  #110  
 
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Originally Posted by ioto1902 View Post
I also think that EK is a very well run company, hiring very competent expat managers.
Nevertheless, I'm not a shareholder, I'm a client. Therefore, I will see my own egocentric benefit first, and 1-2-1 is definitively better than 2-3-2.

I have the chance to fly B777 J almost exclusively on short haul, and actually, the angled flat seat is very convenient as I can climb over my aisle neighbor more easily.
Now, with this mini-bar and stool, I'm less enthusiastic, all the more that bulkhead seats seem to have less space.

We, FTers, may not be representative of the average flyer, but, businessmen flying J will check ahead their working conditions : chauffeur, lounge, wifi, privacy, power outlet, flat bed, etc. 2-3-2 is a no-no to work onboard.
Agreed that 1-2-1 beats 2-3-2, and that the new seats look harder to get into and out of. however don't understand how 2-3-2 prevents working on board, are you carrying a desktop computer with you or need to routinely pace up and down the aisle while contemplating the stresses of your job?
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Old Mar 12, 16, 12:13 pm
  #111  
 
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Originally Posted by skywardhunter View Post
Agreed that 1-2-1 beats 2-3-2, and that the new seats look harder to get into and out of. however don't understand how 2-3-2 prevents working on board, are you carrying a desktop computer with you or need to routinely pace up and down the aisle while contemplating the stresses of your job?
I can easily look over and see what my seat neighbour is looking at on his computer (without even trying to eavesdrop or spy I have seen some interesting things flicker across a screen, especially to/from cities with conferences going on) - this would of course be generally unacceptable for anything even remotely commercially (or even politically) sensitive.
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Old Mar 12, 16, 12:41 pm
  #112  
 
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Originally Posted by skywardhunter View Post
Agreed that 1-2-1 beats 2-3-2, and that the new seats look harder to get into and out of. however don't understand how 2-3-2 prevents working on board, are you carrying a desktop computer with you or need to routinely pace up and down the aisle while contemplating the stresses of your job?
hahaha

Because of confidentiality.

I once enjoyed a whole AF flight CDG-PEK (previous J cabin) with two direct competitors sitting in A/B, working on a PowerPoint presentation for their local joint-venture partner. I was sitting in E (aisle in center) one row behind. It was a little bit far, but I understood the main points of their 3-year strategy ...

This is one reason I never work on EK B777 J, and always choose window on EK A380 J.

And, indeed, I enjoy looking outside during take-offs and landings, but also need to move my legs regularly and chat with FAs telling them how happy I am to fly EK as much as they enjoy working for EK
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Old Mar 30, 16, 2:40 pm
  #113  
 
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"New" 777 Business Class seats

At the recent ITB Tim Clark was quoted as follows with regard to the new business class seats (still 7 across) EK plans to introduce on all new 777 deliveries (so no retrofitting):

Sir Tim Clark, Emirates president said: 'Our current Boeing 777 business class seats are already an industry-leading premium product, and what this new seat does is to take that design and comfort to the next level.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/travel_news/article-3484016/Emirates-new-business-class-seat-offer-passengers-legroom-private-minibar-23in-television-screen.html#ixzz44PsDn0VE

Makes me wonder if EK's marketing department has lost even the last touch of reality, or maybe I just never appreciated how "industry-leading premium" the current product already is ;-)
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Old Mar 31, 16, 1:31 pm
  #114  
 
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maybe just me but saw the pictures again today: current 777, you can quite easy pass the B/J seat (or D/F) but now it looks like you have no space at all between wall and seat
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Old Mar 31, 16, 3:03 pm
  #115  
 
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Well, on A380, 65 E/F and 78 E/F no longer need to feel bad. So far they are the only ones living in a fishbowl eagerly waiting for any left food choices with teared eyes. They will have company in J.
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Old Mar 31, 16, 11:00 pm
  #116  
 
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Originally Posted by eternaltransit View Post
I can easily look over and see what my seat neighbour is looking at on his computer (without even trying to eavesdrop or spy I have seen some interesting things flicker across a screen, especially to/from cities with conferences going on) - this would of course be generally unacceptable for anything even remotely commercially (or even politically) sensitive.
That's what screen filters are for
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Old Apr 2, 16, 3:59 am
  #117  
 
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The layout is quite disappointing. BLR-DXB-SEA is my most common route and since I hear both flights will continue to be 777s I was hoping for direct aisle access.

That said, I do find the A380 J seat a little narrow when trying to sleep.
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Old Apr 2, 16, 6:40 am
  #118  
 
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Originally Posted by m3red View Post
That's what screen filters are for
Indeed, but it's shocking the number of people who don't use them! Even then you can just about get a good angle if you are directly behind them in the aisle - but that would be an issue on other airlines as well. Just means you have to argue with the boss for F suites!
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