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-   -   New 777 J seat announced (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/emirates-skywards/1750583-new-777-j-seat-announced.html)

ckx2 Mar 9, 16 9:49 pm

What a joke.

Dieuwer Mar 9, 16 10:04 pm

Why not 2-2-2?

NoY Mar 9, 16 11:08 pm

Pathetic. 2-3-2 for a 2016 Business Class seat launch, with NO direct aisle access except for those seated in the aisle? Laugh? I nearly did :td:

BUT, it (almost unbelievably) makes sense from an EK business-model perspective in many many ways (as covered extensively up-thread). Sadly.

I shall abandon plans to build EK status/miles & stick with EY where I get direct able access in J on all long haul aircraft. They also happen to fly everywhere I want to go ^

skywardhunter Mar 9, 16 11:38 pm


Originally Posted by NoY (Post 26310953)
Pathetic. 2-3-2 for a 2016 Business Class seat launch, with NO direct aisle access except for those seated in the aisle? Laugh? I nearly did :td:

BUT, it (almost unbelievably) makes sense from an EK business-model perspective in many many ways (as covered extensively up-thread). Sadly.

I shall abandon plans to build EK status/miles & stick with EY where I get direct able access in J on all long haul aircraft. They also happen to fly everywhere I want to go ^

Or just don't choose the middle seat...?

subject2load Mar 10, 16 12:02 am


Originally Posted by skywardhunter (Post 26311044)
Or just don't choose the middle seat...?


Okay ... so.....what's the strategy if you find yourself having to book a flight at short notice (as many business travellers inevitably do), and all seats except the middle ones - surprise, surprise - have already been selected .....:confused:


And even if you're not the poor sod in the middle, there's surely going to be some leaning across by FA's when serving whoever is....?

It's just wrong.

Antdenatale Mar 10, 16 12:13 am

To say the new seat is a big disappointment would be a vast understatement. What happened to the Innovation that Emirates was famous for a few years back. This seat is simple evolution not revolution.

To sick with 2-3-2 in this day and age in Business Class is madness, as mentioned above a lot of flights are booked near to departure date and I would rather book with EY or QR on a route that is operated by EK 777 than take the risk of being in the middle seat.

travelislife Mar 10, 16 12:51 am

I reckon they are hamstrung by the number of aircraft they have. So they had to stick with 2-3-2 because they aren't retrofitting. It would have made route planning pretty bloody hard with the number of 777's they have if they had changed config.

In saying that, why they didn't go down the JL path of direct aisle access for all in a 2-3-2 config does seem crazy.

ft101 Mar 10, 16 1:18 am


Originally Posted by eternaltransit (Post 26307384)
. . . .and have a compartment for drinks which probably isn't even refrigerated.

It is this time. :)

m3red Mar 10, 16 1:26 am


Originally Posted by travelislife (Post 26311215)
I reckon they are hamstrung by the number of aircraft they have. So they had to stick with 2-3-2 because they aren't retrofitting. It would have made route planning pretty bloody hard with the number of 777's they have if they had changed config.

In saying that, why they didn't go down the JL path of direct aisle access for all in a 2-3-2 config does seem crazy.

The most sensible post yet. There has to be something in this - 2 3 2 as per JAL would surely mean either less j or less y seats and given most flights go full in y and j it seems to be an economic call. I guess that the change may come on newer episodes aircraft that will do certain routes where the maths work.

This will certainly keep me paying for first...maybe there's something in that too...keeping the product differentiation.

EK is certainly not Market leading when it comes to it's hard product any more save for the ice (still the nets out there) and the best shower spa and bar area.

PremiumTraveller Mar 10, 16 1:40 am

Emirates needs to stop dreaming face reality. If they continue to dissapoint and think people will continue to fly EK in the long run because it's Emirates - we may see history repeat.

The seat makes it even more isolating for couples to fly together. Business Class is supposed to have more room and space, not barriers and limitations to facilitate unnecessary junk.

skywardhunter Mar 10, 16 3:12 am

I definitely think EK is simply differentiating their product. In the end it is business class. Does it really need all the luxuries first has to offer? I think a lot of other carriers are getting carried away with business and many don't have first cabins so there's no higher bar.

It's a suitable and significant step up from Y, while leaving room for improvement towards F. Does it compete with other business products? No. Maybe EK is trying to arrest the "arms race" of airline hard products and in the end I doubt there's a real danger of people stopping flying with EK because of this. Most pax don't make travel decisions based on the configuration of the business cabin.

ioto1902 Mar 10, 16 3:13 am

JL accepted to reduce seat number with their new layout (same for JL Y with more pitch, particularly on B787).
EK had this possibility but decided to favor maximum load over comfort, which is not very surprising from a carrier that is studying 11-abreast on A380 Y.

EK B777 new J is already behind competition. How will it be in 8 years ? (EK introduced the current J in 2008 IIRC)

For a final positive touch, the new seat texture seems nice, if it is really soft white leather.


FYI, JL has F which is really really nice, both on hard and soft.

DYKWIA Mar 10, 16 3:32 am


Originally Posted by PremiumTraveller (Post 26311318)
Emirates needs to stop dreaming face reality. If they continue to dissapoint and think people will continue to fly EK in the long run because it's Emirates - we may see history repeat.

The seat makes it even more isolating for couples to fly together. Business Class is supposed to have more room and space, not barriers and limitations to facilitate unnecessary junk.

No *people* need to wake up... You want cheaper J fares? Then you'll need to put up with a flat bed, nice food & champagne and great entertainment in a 2x3x2 layout.

OK, you can move on to use other carriers if you want. But why hasn't this happened so far? EK know they have a quite loyal following who appear to be quite happy with the current product. So, why change?

If, in 2 or 3 years time, loads start to drop off, I'm sure EK will re-consider. The new J seat isn't costing them anything (no retro-fit), so they could bring a new seat/layout if necessary in the future.

ekgoldmember Mar 10, 16 4:06 am

Great product
 
I am here attending ITB Berlin. I already visited the emirates booth which is huge and on 3 levels. On the ground they have the new business class seats and I tried them out. Very comfortable. You sink into the seat and the mini bar now on the bottom right. Makes sense when you extend the chair. TV is huge and they have already modified the ports and added new privacy screen which seems higher. In all a big step up.

ioto1902 Mar 10, 16 4:18 am


Originally Posted by DYKWIA (Post 26311603)
...
If, in 2 or 3 years time, loads start to drop off, I'm sure EK will re-consider. The new J seat isn't costing them anything (no retro-fit), so they could bring a new seat/layout if necessary in the future.

If aviation industry is similar to other industries, there has to be a fixed development cost. The cost is important if you redesign from scratch or if you change the basic structure (seat frame).
Usually, there are three possibilities :
> The maker invoices this charge one-shot.
> The maker spreads this cost on the unit price, in which case, there is a committed purchase volume.
> A mix of the two above.
Therefore, we can't say it costs nothing. There is a certain cost, even if it was just a personalization of an existing model, and this cost is meant to be amortized in a decided number of years.

I don't think that EK plans to revamp J again soon.

EK is just confident that their aggressive price offers will fill their fleet, even if the product itself is a little bit behind. With the development of LCC everywhere, pax are now more sensitive to price than anything else. This goes also for biz pax, or, to be accurate, for companies paying for biz tickets.


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