Help me decode ExpertFlyer seat availability
 

So... curiosity can be dangerous. I bit the bullet and signed up to the EF Premium 5-day trial to look at my upcoming flight and now I'm lost in a sea of buckets.

I'm flying DMM-DXB-MAN on a Business Saver ticket (EK822 27-Aug / EK21 28-Aug). EK website shows I can purchase a miles upgrade for DMM-DXB, but not DXB-MAN. The seat selection shows mostly available seats on EJ822 but only one free seat on EK21, though I've learnt that doesn't necessarily count for anything.

If I search for the flights in one go, ie DMM-MAN with a connection in DXB, it shows the same availability for both legs:
F4 A4 J2 C0 I0 O0 P0 Y1 E0 R0 W0 M0 B0 U0 K0 H0 Q0 L0 T0 V0 X0

But if I split my search as two separate flights, the numbers change:
EK822: F4 A4 J7 C7 I7 O0 P6 Y9 E9 R9 W9 M9 B9 U9 K0 H0 Q0 L0 T0 V0 X0
EK21: F4 A4 J2 C0 I0 O0 P0 Y3 E3 R2 W1 M0 B0 U0 K0 H0 Q0 L0 T0 V0 X0

Can someone help me understand what the above means - specifically, what are my chances of an op-up to F as a Gold? :D

Thanks,

Abhi

First things first, you can't see upgrade classes from an availability search - you need to use the award search. First class reward seats and upgrades are in Z bucket and Business class upgrades and Business Awards are in D class.

EF is currently showing no availability for DMM-DXB-MAN journey because there isnt Z class seats available on both legs, only DMM-DXB has Z class availability.

Based on the inventory you are showing there, your EK822 is quite open (not hugely, but certainly not full) and hence why they have released upgrade seats (in both J and F actually).

Your EK 21 only is allowing 2 seats in Business class to be sold, so its much more full. Economy is also full. If you are Skywards Gold, I would say your chances of Op up to F are pretty high actually as they are likely going to need to move Y-J which is fullish anyway and hence will then move J-F.

Regarding the 2 different inventory displays, its because EK is an OD carrier, for your itin, they are selling DMM-MAN, DXB-MAN and DMM-DXB which all have different pricing and inventory allocations.

Hope this helps. Enjoy your flights and good luck!

I wasn't planning on purchasing an award upgrade, just added the info in case it helped with my query. But there's something new I've learnt today!

Good news, but also potentially bad news - it's a tight connection (90 mins on paper, shorter because DMM-DXB is usually delayed) which I've had to be escorted plane to plane a couple of times via the sneaky unmarked doors through the concourses, so with EK21 being this full they'll have more of a reason to bump me to the next flight (EK17 A380) which appears to be less full and therefore less likely to bump to F :( But hopefully being Gold they'll try to get me on EK21... guess I'll have to wait and see!

Forgive my ignorance - what is an OD carrier?

It does - thank you! ^

OD - Origin Destination, i.e. a carrier that prices its fares based on the origin and destination only and not the intermediate routing.

Sorry, I jumped the gun a little bit, I assumed that since you were at the upgrade awards, you were asking if seats will be released on your whole itin - sorry about that.

If it shows J 2 it is usally about 2 over in J.

Y looks way over. Decent chance of an upgrade if F is empty although its a high status route MAN although probably not at this time of the year.

Don't forget you also don't see things like standby lists and staff load on Expertflyer - I think on EK21, there might be a good chance of an op-up J-F :)

But of course, I would not create an expectation of an op-up because that way lies only disappointment, should it not materialise. After all, people miss their connections all the time...! Also, DXB-UK mileage upgrades are some of the best value uses of miles around, so even if you don't get it, I'd probably do an on-board upgrade...

[QUOTE=eternaltransit;25329324]Don't forget you also don't see things like standby lists and staff load on Expertflyer - I think on EK21, there might be a good chance of an op-up J-F :)

But of course, I would not create an expectation of an op-up because that way lies only disappointment, should it not materialise. After all, people miss their connections all the time...! Also, DXB-UK mileage upgrades are some of the best value uses of miles around, so even if you don't get it, I'd probably do an on-board upgrade...[/QUOTE]

for 21 I wouldnt bother...

I was once on a flight that was way over in Y and I was hoping for J to F.

No upgrade happened because 30 people missed the connection.

M3red- you are making me nervous with "30people missed their connection"!. I am on the EK20 in F with 1h 15m connexion in DXB. Never had such a tight connection. Should I start to prepare for the worst??? Because it will mean an overnight stay should I miss the connecting flight!

That's a tight connection I'm not sure on the dmm flights timings.

I'm sure 8 or 9 /10 you'd make it. You'd probably get an op up on the next flight too.

Thanks m3red. Next sector is also F so no op Up!!!!! I'll just keep my fingers crossed and hope I'm the 8 or 9!!

I've had tight connections of ~45 mins (DMM-DXB delayed) as Y and as J. In Y they'd reallocated my seat before I'd landed, and bumped me to the next flight with no op-up.

In J - different day, same flight, same connection time - I got the personal escort gate to gate. I'm told that they make the extra effort for J/F - so hopefully you'll make it!

Thanks for that. Feel somewhat calmer!!!

Postscript: made the connection with plenty of time, even popped into the lounge. Got to gate and the guy in front of me got a J-F op-up... no such luck for me. Looked at the manifest on board, me and 3 other Golds in J.
No complaints about the J experience though :)

Lots of plats to man too

Good evening everyone. I too have a question regarding ExpertFlyer and how to decipher how busy the flight is. I'm on EK405 tomorrow night (MEL-SIN) and it's showing the following:

F4 A3 J7 C7 I7 O0 P0 Y9 E9 R9 W9 M9 B9 U9 K9 H9 Q9 L9 T0 V0 X0

Could someone please explain to me what this means?

Many thanks, Andrew

Means its wide open in all classes

Thank you very much. Is it as simple as just seeing that there's a number greater than zero in a few of the economy classes to realize that it's not so busy?

Thanks again.

9 (or 7 in some cases) is the highest number you will see for any RBD.

This does not actually mean that there are 9 (or more) seats available as availability of all RBDs might drastically change simply with one additional booking.

For instance, if F is empty and J is fully booked, you might still see the J RBDs wide open.

I am looking at a flight that shows F4, and Google Flights is selling 4 F seats. However when I go to the Emirates website and try to book 9 tickets for the flight, it gives me a price quote- suggesting that 9+ seats are available. In addition, the EF seat map is empty. Would there be 9+ seats on that flight, or only 4?

It means 9 are available.

Ef states what EK will sell and they don't oversell F but even at F4 A4 it means they will sell 4 seats at either F flex or saver but Likely means more than 4 are left.

I have a flight that is F4 A4 and 6 seats are left...

For F the maximum availability is always 4, just like in Y it will never show higher than 9. It means 4 or more, not exactly 4. And like m3red mentions, there are other fare buckets that book into first class as well, not just F

So for the last few days it looks like expertflyer is down. Anyone else not able to connect?

works fine for me

New to EF (yay!), am I right in saying that the following 2 flights are full in economy but some availability in first and business?

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.fly...1f67ebe559.png

How likely is this to change, my flight is in 5 days time.

Thanks in advance.

A few weeks ago I posted my flight availability for BKK-DXB and DXB-MAN. Both were on Y0 with a week to go. Then throughout the week they jumped back up as high as Y7 on both flights.

On the day of departure BKK-DXB was showing Y4 and this was confirmed on check in and DXB-MAN was back to Y0... I was sulking in the lounge resigned to the fact I would not get an OP-Up on the first flight but still had hopes for the Manchester flight. To my delight my boarding pass changed in the BKK lounge and then at this point I was fairly confident of an Op-Up for my second flight. Yet this was not to be on the MAN sector, in fact economy was not even full.

It is good to use EF to get an idea but in reality it can be so unpredictable. A Y0 flight can become empty from missed connections and then likewise a flight that looks wide open can all of a sudden becomes oversold.

Completely agree with the above. I was thinking of gambling on an op-up on SYD-DXB (Gold and Flex Plus) last week based on the availability figures, with Y looking full and J pretty empty with just a week to go. I ended up taking a discounted offer and glad, I did as J went out with one empty seat and Y with lots.

The numbers just can't be relied on, or my knowledge of how to obtain and interpret them isn't up to speed.

Sorry, don't get it?

Do you mean that its full in Y or oversold?

A few observations...

1) Are you looking at each sector individually or both sectors as a trip? Emirates relies quite heavily on married segments so the availability can differ if searching segment by segment might show different availability.

2) I've noticed that Emirates will often still sell F seats even when J is overbooked to the point that the F cabin will already be full. They clearly take the view that the additional revenue from selling an F seat is greater than downgrading/offloadinga a J passenger. This is similar in J when Y is heavily overbooked

Sc0tty - if you share the exact date of your flights, I will see if I can get the exact load for you if it's T-48...

Thanks mate.

I am looking at a 'married' segment - PVG to GLA on the 20th March.

Depart PVG on EK303 on 20th March and then EK027 on 21st of March.

Thank you.

If they were only selling Flex Plus tickets I'd tend to agree. However, with Flex tickets (W, M and B) still for sale I think they expect there will be empty seats.