Emirates: Vanishing Staff and Screaming Kids
Aug 12, 2015, 12:36 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Boston
Posts: 467
Emirates: Vanishing Staff and Screaming Kids
Over at ASK THE PILOT I have revisited the always-controversial topic of kids in premium class. This time I describe a recent trip in Emirates on the upper deck of the A380.
Also, I sat in a business class sleeper with empty water bottles and trash on my console for FIVE HOURS before finally carrying it all to the galley. What ever happened to the flight attendant walk-through?
Here are some excerpts...
There's a lot to like in Emirates business class on the Airbus A380.
But something is missing. It's the human touch. Next to me on my console are two empty water bottles, some crumpled plastic and a wadded-up cloth napkin from my meal. It all just sits there. I haven't seen a flight attendant since the meal service ended. Time ticks by. One hour. Two hours. Three hours. Four hours. Five hours.
Flight attendants are supposed to perform "walk-throughs" every several minutes, picking up trash and seeing if customers need anything. I fully realize that cabin staff are often overworked and underpaid, but a business class fare entitles a passenger to more than creature comforts, important as they are. There's an expectation of service. If you need a glass of wine, a cocktail, a cup of tea or coffee -- or your empty water bottles taken away -- you shouldn't have to wait more than a token amount of time before a passing attendant takes are of it.
How often these walk-throughs are intended to take place varies carrier to carrier, cabin to cabin. The problem is they're not being done. And this isn't a problem peculiar to Emirates. I've experience the same thing on many carriers of late, and the issue seems to be getting worse. My recent, premium cabin experiences with Qatar Airways and even the vaunted Singapore Airlines weren't much different. Across the board, carriers seem to be de-emphasizing the intangibles and leaving it up to physical attributes -- your seat and its surrounding amenities -- to keep customers happy.
Meanwhile, let's take a minute to revisit the topic of young children traveling in business class. I continue to be astounded by the sheer number of people traveling around the world with babies, toddlers, and other preschool-age children. Even more astounding is how many of these kids are traveling in business class. How the demographics of air travel have changed, indeed.
I'm sitting in the Emirates business class lounge in Dubai, and good 15 percent of the those present are little kids or babies. When it comes time to board, I'm walking up the jet bridge that leads to the upper deck when a huge family of at least a dozen, six of them kids, rudely cuts the line. Once on board, the adults in the group are obnoxious enough, shouting across the aisles at each other. The kids, though, take it to the next level. They're screaming, running up and down the aisle. They're climbing over the seat-backs, their heads popping up, whack-a-mole style.
When I can't take it any more I walk over and ask the mother to please control her children. "I'm sorry but I paid a lot of money to be here," I said. Slouched in her chair, she looks up at me contemptuously. "So did we," she answers. "They are only children."
This is a standard rebuttal. We paid for the tickets, the argument goes, so we have a right to be here, and hey, it's just kids being kids, right? Actually, no, I'm sorry, but this is not a legitimate justification. Because while indeed you have the right to be there, you do not have the right to ruin the experience of those around you.
There's no escape from the racket. Not even in the bar in the rear cabin of the A380 -- the bar! -- which as the flight progresses becomes a sort of day-care center full of mothers clutching their crying children.
When you’re flying in long-haul first or business class, you aren’t merely paying for transportation. You are paying for comfort. For luxury, even. That includes not having your experienced wrecked by disruptive passengers of any age. This isn’t about protecting the “arrogant" flyers up front from the noisy riffraff in steerage, but in premium class there’s a higher standard and greater expectations. That's what people are paying for.
The FULL story, including a discussion of the noise-canceling headphones "solution" and a morbidly funny description of the scene in the aft-cabin bar, can be read here:
http://www.askthepilot.com/day-care-center-in-the-sky/
Please enjoy.
-- Patrick
I am the curator and host of the Ask the Pilot site, linked to above.
Also, I sat in a business class sleeper with empty water bottles and trash on my console for FIVE HOURS before finally carrying it all to the galley. What ever happened to the flight attendant walk-through?
Here are some excerpts...
There's a lot to like in Emirates business class on the Airbus A380.
But something is missing. It's the human touch. Next to me on my console are two empty water bottles, some crumpled plastic and a wadded-up cloth napkin from my meal. It all just sits there. I haven't seen a flight attendant since the meal service ended. Time ticks by. One hour. Two hours. Three hours. Four hours. Five hours.
Flight attendants are supposed to perform "walk-throughs" every several minutes, picking up trash and seeing if customers need anything. I fully realize that cabin staff are often overworked and underpaid, but a business class fare entitles a passenger to more than creature comforts, important as they are. There's an expectation of service. If you need a glass of wine, a cocktail, a cup of tea or coffee -- or your empty water bottles taken away -- you shouldn't have to wait more than a token amount of time before a passing attendant takes are of it.
How often these walk-throughs are intended to take place varies carrier to carrier, cabin to cabin. The problem is they're not being done. And this isn't a problem peculiar to Emirates. I've experience the same thing on many carriers of late, and the issue seems to be getting worse. My recent, premium cabin experiences with Qatar Airways and even the vaunted Singapore Airlines weren't much different. Across the board, carriers seem to be de-emphasizing the intangibles and leaving it up to physical attributes -- your seat and its surrounding amenities -- to keep customers happy.
Meanwhile, let's take a minute to revisit the topic of young children traveling in business class. I continue to be astounded by the sheer number of people traveling around the world with babies, toddlers, and other preschool-age children. Even more astounding is how many of these kids are traveling in business class. How the demographics of air travel have changed, indeed.
I'm sitting in the Emirates business class lounge in Dubai, and good 15 percent of the those present are little kids or babies. When it comes time to board, I'm walking up the jet bridge that leads to the upper deck when a huge family of at least a dozen, six of them kids, rudely cuts the line. Once on board, the adults in the group are obnoxious enough, shouting across the aisles at each other. The kids, though, take it to the next level. They're screaming, running up and down the aisle. They're climbing over the seat-backs, their heads popping up, whack-a-mole style.
When I can't take it any more I walk over and ask the mother to please control her children. "I'm sorry but I paid a lot of money to be here," I said. Slouched in her chair, she looks up at me contemptuously. "So did we," she answers. "They are only children."
This is a standard rebuttal. We paid for the tickets, the argument goes, so we have a right to be here, and hey, it's just kids being kids, right? Actually, no, I'm sorry, but this is not a legitimate justification. Because while indeed you have the right to be there, you do not have the right to ruin the experience of those around you.
There's no escape from the racket. Not even in the bar in the rear cabin of the A380 -- the bar! -- which as the flight progresses becomes a sort of day-care center full of mothers clutching their crying children.
When you’re flying in long-haul first or business class, you aren’t merely paying for transportation. You are paying for comfort. For luxury, even. That includes not having your experienced wrecked by disruptive passengers of any age. This isn’t about protecting the “arrogant" flyers up front from the noisy riffraff in steerage, but in premium class there’s a higher standard and greater expectations. That's what people are paying for.
The FULL story, including a discussion of the noise-canceling headphones "solution" and a morbidly funny description of the scene in the aft-cabin bar, can be read here:
http://www.askthepilot.com/day-care-center-in-the-sky/
Please enjoy.
-- Patrick
I am the curator and host of the Ask the Pilot site, linked to above.
Aug 12, 2015, 2:52 pm
#3
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: EWR-SEA-IAD
Programs: UA 1P MM, AS MVP G*, SPG Gold, Hyatt Plat, IHG Plat, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 977
What can you do. For a lot of people they are afraid of speaking up as people will most of the time sympathize with the kids. If you yell at the kids or the parents you may even get accused of child abuse, or worse. Its a lose lose situation. I was on PEK-IAD once and the 5 or so babies took turns crying the entire flight from takeoff to landing. No-one in the cabin slept a wink.
Invest in a pair of custom earbuds, like ultimate ears. You don't even have to turn them on and they block nearly all the noise since they're custom molded. Much lighter and smaller than bose.
Invest in a pair of custom earbuds, like ultimate ears. You don't even have to turn them on and they block nearly all the noise since they're custom molded. Much lighter and smaller than bose.
Aug 12, 2015, 3:14 pm
#4
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,454
I know it would be unacceptable on a day time flight if there were no crew coming past you for five hours, either for meal services/orders/drinks and not taking away all the trash - but one must question why if trash etc. was such an irritant to the OP that it was impossible to find a member of staff in five (!) hours to clear it all away, considering that staff have to serve meals and drinks, someone has to come and say hello to you and there is a call bell.
Of course, other scenarios are possible: the cabin was in darkness (might be hard to see the trash on a quick walk through) and/or the OP was sleeping, or the OP was intent on watching a movie on his screen and the crew would not want to reach over and interrupt...after all, the OP was on a ULH or overnight flight, given his amenity kit visible in his report.
It would be possible to get the impression from his report that the OP takes some sort of a perverse pleasure in allowing himself to get disproportionately irritated instead of nipping the problem in the bud by pressing a button on his handset to summon a crew member. But then again, that doesn't really make for interesting reading, does it
As regards to the perennial issue of kids on planes - EK does offer earplugs which are quite effective, absent ones own noise isolating earbuds (custom or not). However, I sympathise that the OP might not have been aware of this at the time.
Of course, other scenarios are possible: the cabin was in darkness (might be hard to see the trash on a quick walk through) and/or the OP was sleeping, or the OP was intent on watching a movie on his screen and the crew would not want to reach over and interrupt...after all, the OP was on a ULH or overnight flight, given his amenity kit visible in his report.
It would be possible to get the impression from his report that the OP takes some sort of a perverse pleasure in allowing himself to get disproportionately irritated instead of nipping the problem in the bud by pressing a button on his handset to summon a crew member. But then again, that doesn't really make for interesting reading, does it
As regards to the perennial issue of kids on planes - EK does offer earplugs which are quite effective, absent ones own noise isolating earbuds (custom or not). However, I sympathise that the OP might not have been aware of this at the time.
Aug 12, 2015, 8:51 pm
#6
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: KWI
Programs: I travel for fun these days.
Posts: 383
I find the newer planes have these little buttons you can push which will then alert the FAs to your request for service.
I can also attest that I have used one of these buttons when I needed something filled/emptied/turned on/turned off and the FA was promptly at my side.
Technology is amazing.
I can also attest that I have used one of these buttons when I needed something filled/emptied/turned on/turned off and the FA was promptly at my side.
Technology is amazing.
Aug 12, 2015, 11:56 pm
#8
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 139
So what happened when you pushed the button to call for a flight attended?
Oh wait, you did not push the button, instead you keep it to yourself an go rant on the internet like a real man.
My experience with Emirates in Business class ( only a few times to be honest ) is that if you act like a decent guest you are treated like one.
So you might want to take a look in the mirror.....
Oh wait, you did not push the button, instead you keep it to yourself an go rant on the internet like a real man.
My experience with Emirates in Business class ( only a few times to be honest ) is that if you act like a decent guest you are treated like one.
So you might want to take a look in the mirror.....
Aug 13, 2015, 2:54 am
#11
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 31
Excuse my ignorance - but do children pay full adult fare when travelling in F or J and does it cost same amount of points if award?
My own view is if they pay the same fare regardless of age - 1 day onwards - then they are able to fly in any cabin.
Of course though a level of behaviour is required regardless of age and if a toddler the parents must be responsible for the behaviour.
My own view is if they pay the same fare regardless of age - 1 day onwards - then they are able to fly in any cabin.
Of course though a level of behaviour is required regardless of age and if a toddler the parents must be responsible for the behaviour.
Aug 13, 2015, 3:16 am
#12
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: DXB
Programs: EK, AA, DL, UA, SPG, HGP, Amex
Posts: 1,208
Excuse my ignorance - but do children pay full adult fare when travelling in F or J and does it cost same amount of points if award?
My own view is if they pay the same fare regardless of age - 1 day onwards - then they are able to fly in any cabin.
Of course though a level of behaviour is required regardless of age and if a toddler the parents must be responsible for the behaviour.
My own view is if they pay the same fare regardless of age - 1 day onwards - then they are able to fly in any cabin.
Of course though a level of behaviour is required regardless of age and if a toddler the parents must be responsible for the behaviour.
F tickets, awards and upgrades are the same as adults.
But I don't think the 'as long as they pay the same fare' point you make is valid, because there's a wide range of adult F/J fares that's wider than the 25% discount. (can someone paying Flex Plus behave worse than Saver? Cash vs Award? Originating in CMB vs DXB?).
Last edited by extramileage; Aug 13, 2015 at 3:21 am
Aug 13, 2015, 3:41 am
#13
Join Date: Sep 2013
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Skywards (enhanced Blue !), Oman Air Sindbad Gold
Posts: 6,398
The comments by other posters re use of the call button are well-made, but at the same time I don't believe this should be a mitigating factor or used as some sort of defence where sloppy standards overall are concerned.
So, perhaps against the general flow, I do support the OP in expecting that the cabin should be checked regularly - in much the same way that, when dining in a restaurant I feel it's much better for staff to clear tables in a timely, unsolicited manner, and to adopt a 'pro-active' approach (eg re additional drinks etc) rather than always waiting to be summoned.
As regards ill-behaved kids ......yes, I know it's public transport and I'm familiar with the oft-posted advice along the lines of you just need to accept this sort of thing and deal with it ...they've paid their money just like you .....it's the way of the world etc etc BUT, again, I support the perspective of the OP. I get very, very irritated if kids are allowed by their parents to damage other people's experience in premium cabins, in the same way that I despair at kids (not to mention adults of course ...
) behaving badly in airline lounges, feet on seats etc etc. All part & parcel of the same problem IMO.
Any notion that such behaviour is either acceptable or 'natural' can only result in an ongoing deterioration of standards over time.
So, perhaps against the general flow, I do support the OP in expecting that the cabin should be checked regularly - in much the same way that, when dining in a restaurant I feel it's much better for staff to clear tables in a timely, unsolicited manner, and to adopt a 'pro-active' approach (eg re additional drinks etc) rather than always waiting to be summoned.
As regards ill-behaved kids ......yes, I know it's public transport and I'm familiar with the oft-posted advice along the lines of you just need to accept this sort of thing and deal with it ...they've paid their money just like you .....it's the way of the world etc etc BUT, again, I support the perspective of the OP. I get very, very irritated if kids are allowed by their parents to damage other people's experience in premium cabins, in the same way that I despair at kids (not to mention adults of course ...
) behaving badly in airline lounges, feet on seats etc etc. All part & parcel of the same problem IMO.Any notion that such behaviour is either acceptable or 'natural' can only result in an ongoing deterioration of standards over time.
Aug 13, 2015, 4:46 am
#14
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 5,454
The comments by other posters re use of the call button are well-made, but at the same time I don't believe this should be a mitigating factor or used as some sort of defence where sloppy standards overall are concerned.
So, perhaps against the general flow, I do support the OP in expecting that the cabin should be checked regularly - in much the same way that, when dining in a restaurant I feel it's much better for staff to clear tables in a timely, unsolicited manner, and to adopt a 'pro-active' approach (eg re additional drinks etc) rather than always waiting to be summoned.
As regards ill-behaved kids ......yes, I know it's public transport and I'm familiar with the oft-posted advice along the lines of you just need to accept this sort of thing and deal with it ...they've paid their money just like you .....it's the way of the world etc etc BUT, again, I support the perspective of the OP. I get very, very irritated if kids are allowed by their parents to damage other people's experience in premium cabins, in the same way that I despair at kids (not to mention adults of course ...) behaving badly in airline lounges, feet on seats etc etc. All part & parcel of the same problem IMO.
Any notion that such behaviour is either acceptable or 'natural' can only result in an ongoing deterioration of standards over time.
So, perhaps against the general flow, I do support the OP in expecting that the cabin should be checked regularly - in much the same way that, when dining in a restaurant I feel it's much better for staff to clear tables in a timely, unsolicited manner, and to adopt a 'pro-active' approach (eg re additional drinks etc) rather than always waiting to be summoned.
As regards ill-behaved kids ......yes, I know it's public transport and I'm familiar with the oft-posted advice along the lines of you just need to accept this sort of thing and deal with it ...they've paid their money just like you .....it's the way of the world etc etc BUT, again, I support the perspective of the OP. I get very, very irritated if kids are allowed by their parents to damage other people's experience in premium cabins, in the same way that I despair at kids (not to mention adults of course ...
) behaving badly in airline lounges, feet on seats etc etc. All part & parcel of the same problem IMO.Any notion that such behaviour is either acceptable or 'natural' can only result in an ongoing deterioration of standards over time.
In my experience of EK J, I find it actually impossible to believe that no crew walked through the cabin in 5 hours, apart from perhaps, during a ULH night time mode where everyone is sleeping. Which leads me to think that as crew walked past, the OP didn't signal to them to take away the trash (perhaps as a sort of "test"?). Perhaps the mitigating circumstances for the crew were as I said, he was watching a movie and crew didn't want to disturb, or he was sleeping, or the cabin was in complete darkness.
I just find it extremely hard to believe that there was no one present who could sort out this problem in five hours (he counted!) and that the OP extended the length of it just for clickbait...
Aug 13, 2015, 5:26 am
#15
Join Date: Jun 2015
Posts: 31
On Emirates, children (between 2 and 12) generally get a 25% discount on the base fare for J and Y, but carrier imposed charges and taxes (which can be significant) are the same.
F tickets, awards and upgrades are the same as adults.
But I don't think the 'as long as they pay the same fare' point you make is valid, because there's a wide range of adult F/J fares that's wider than the 25% discount. (can someone paying Flex Plus behave worse than Saver? Cash vs Award? Originating in CMB vs DXB?).
F tickets, awards and upgrades are the same as adults.
But I don't think the 'as long as they pay the same fare' point you make is valid, because there's a wide range of adult F/J fares that's wider than the 25% discount. (can someone paying Flex Plus behave worse than Saver? Cash vs Award? Originating in CMB vs DXB?).
Does the same apply under 2 or do they travel for free?
I am all for children travelling in all cabins as long as a level of behaviour is maintained - same applies for all passengers regardless of age or status
What surprises me is that when it comes to alcohol and a bar area that any person under the age for consuming alcohol is allowed in that area unsupervised if this is occurring on flights while the bar is operational