No doubt about that.

There is style and there is substance.

There is Emirates, there is ANA or Cathay.

There is Lexus and there is Mercedes.

On the other hand, the Lexus gets the job done, is significantly cheaper hence for some people more than enough.

From my own experience, the hard product is certainly extremely good. But can we say it is still in the very top tier ...? Has it perhaps slipped behind a little ....?

I see reports of some of the newer Etihad aircraft, with new configs/layouts for F & J pax, and these appear to be more spacious and more innovative than EK's current offering.

It has left me wondering whether I might be better off with Etihad for a future trip to Oz. I won't the answer unless/until I try, but just interested to know whether any EK regulars might have recently flirted with EY only to find their F cabin to be below the standard (in terms of hard product) provided by EK........

I hope not! I would fly with Emirates if they took lessons from BA crew training, BA first is a poor product and not one that I'd wish upon my worst of enemies.

The Emirates crew training is actually incredibly good however some crew aren't suitable to be crew which is where the issues come from, it isn't the training it's the calibre of the actual crew themselves.

Interesting point StoobyDoo.

I have no insider knowledge as to the quality of training ; but purely as a passenger, I have often seen examples of 'unsuitability' when it comes to cabin crew (and sometimes ground staff too ....but one's contact with ground crew tends to be much more brief of course).

But where exactly does the responsibility lie ...? Should such people not be identified either at the recruitment stage, or during the training itself ...?

Does the problem stem from EK's enthusiasm for maintaining as multi-cultural and diverse a crew complement as possible, driven in part by the need for particular language ability - but sometimes at the expense of interpersonal skills and service ethic perhaps ...?

I think the burnout factor is also quite high - 80/90-110 hours a month flying, dealing with all sorts of passengers, for someone who is in their early twenties and regarded the job as a way of seeing the world and getting paid for it and enjoying the expat life - after the initial honeymoon is over, then the ennui sets in. As you progress through the company, your initial friends start to leave and you become increasingly tired of having to constantly meet and make new friends.

Of course, these are issues for cabin crew management to identify and rectify - but with the pool of applicants constantly and extremely high, perhaps there is an element of "if you don't like it, leave, and we'll find someone else": so in fact, people don't leave and carry on. Not everyone of course, but that may be some explanation as to why you find the odd bad crew member here or there.

The responsibility lies with Emirates at the end of the day but there is a feeling of "if you don't like it, leave!" especially as Emirates have applicants bursting at the seems for a chance to work for them.

I wouldn't say it's a multicultural issue, it's that these people are young and they had an idealistic way of how it would turn out when the reality is incredibly different.

The fault will always lie with Emirates in one way or another but the crew that are unhappy should take it upon themselves to change jobs if they don't like it anymore as it does affect the quality of service.

eternaltransit, StoobyDoo : thanks for your responses ^

I can relate to what you say on this.

I am not privy to the training BA does or the training EK does. My simple point was that the service and treatment of passengers in BA F, in my experience, has been consistent, unobtrusive, and anticipating. Attendants pass through the cabin throughout the flight and particularly at the beginning and the end. They notice when your wine glass is getting empty and they recall what you're drinking - no need to remind them. However, the overall BA product doesn't approach EK's. Otherwise, I'd be flying LAX-LHR-JED instead of EK through DXB.

My experiences with BA in F have not been particularly consistent. Overall I do not feel that there is a clear difference between BA and EK (regression to the mean again :) ). My personal observation is that BA have in fact been more variable with some fights having stellar service and one or two appalling. EK has rarely been as outstanding as a very good BA flight but never as bad as one or two of the worst on BA.

Having flown both EK F and BA F in the past year, I would rank EK F as the better product, both hard and soft. The EK lounges are better than BA's (I found the Concorde room rather small). If I am correct BA has 3 FAs in F for 12-14 seats (as opposed to EK which has 4), which causes service to be rather rushed. Still, I would fly BA should I need to go to the UK.

I must also admit that the EK F suites were a bit claustrophobic for me, which affected my experience. I must confess that I find the service better and more personal on the 777. I have gotten over my shyness so that now if I want something, I ping for the FA, and s/he is always very prompt at appearing.

One man's junk is another man's treasure...

I have always had relatively good service traveling in F on EK. But, I am not that picky. It is quite possible the nuances that are a very big deal to some, and define the service of their flight, completely miss my radar.

Then again... on the 15 hour USA<->DXB flights I am on, I usually sleep for 8-10 hours, so I am probably missing a lot of interaction with the crew, which is fine by me.

The ability to lock myself in a closet and be left alone for hours on end is my version of flying nirvana.

In terms of training, I find that in many fields there is a similar question. Does a good end-product mean the beginning product was good, or that the training was good? (product=human being)

Of course you can have good flight attendants are a horrible airline, but the idea is that good training reduces variability.

I tend to agree with Whimike as I sleep much of the way from the west coast of the US to the Middle East. However, I do like to have a few cocktails, eat dinner and watch a bit of whats on offer as far as video is concerned before sleeping and then breakfast prior to landing (I typically take early evening flights from LAX/SFO/SEA that arrive a number of hours later, depending upon transit point). EK F is excellent, don't take me wrong, but the hard product is what wins me over. I don't find the 380s claustrophobic at all at all - do I wish that there was more room between the armrest and the sliding doors, probably. One improvement I would suggest for in-flight service is more frequent rounds by attendants with the right bottles of wine in hand - is the lack of that practice (at least on most of my EK flights), not really. I just happen to appreciate staff anticipating what I might want rather than me pressing a button to tell them. There have been exceptions, of course - about 4 months ago I had the pleasure of an American steward (whose mother had flown for American for 25 years) who was superb - friendly (but not too), unobtrusive and anticipated what I might like. When I was done with dinner/drinks and was ready to sleep, he had the bed made up, I closed the doors, and wasn't disturbed for 10 hours, when I woke up for a shower and breakfast.

THIS

Being a full-fare paying F (A-Class ticket) passenger, I think EK's first-class product is exceptional. I am able to pick and chose whichever airline I wish to take, so my choice is based upon who has the best service between the city pairs. The number one factor is seat, second in-flight services and third pre and post-flight experience. But, for me, comfort in the air is the most important thing when flying long-distances (well flying period).

For example, two months ago, Athens to Dubai, no other airline has a lie-flat to the Middle East. There were used drinks in the cubby hole and the gold was discolored and used/worn. The light was duct taped to the wall. I asked for a glass of water three times (since the VOSS in my compartment was used by the previous passenger). The overall experience was sub-par, BUT I was able to stretch out and have privacy. Last month, ORD-DXB-ORD in F, it was as if I was on a different airline all together. The service, food, cabin, staff was what Emirates First should always be about.

If I want to have an exceptional meal I'll go to a fine-restaurant, if I want to plow through bottles of Krug, I'll go buy a case, I carry with me all the amenities I need so the kit doesn't matter. Now, should the meal served in FC be something worthy of first-class, absolutely. From the few million miles under my belt, my expectations about food are not held to the highest standards.

EY might have something to say about that, with their fuly flat J on their A330. Not sure whether it was a recent change.Sounds more than "sub-par" - it sounds like they simply forgot to clean and restock your seat altogether. :eek: