kalashinikov

GOD I am LIVID!!!, Emirates are refusing to payout compensation because they are hiding behind some loop hole about how their airport is outside the EU and my connecting flight was flying outside the EU, even thou it was the flight from BHX that caused the missed connection and me reaching my final destination a whole 17+ hours late.

They had assured me they would hold the flight back when asked at BHX.

Dear Mr XXXXXX

I refer to your online feedback received yesterday, regarding compensation under EC261/2004.

Passengers are now able to claim for compensation for delayed flights from the UK where the delay to the arrival in Dubai is more than three hours and if the delay was not due to extraordinary circumstances which were beyond an airline's control.

A review of your case shows that you were travelling on flight EK038 from Birmingham to Dubai on 29 January 2015.

Flight EK038 arrived on stand at Dubai 2 hours and 16 minutes later than scheduled which regrettably caused you to misconnect with your onward flight to Colombo. As this is less than three hours, EU compensation does not apply.

For further clarification to avoid any doubt your departing flight from Dubai to Colombo, has no connection with the EU and does not involve an EU carrier and is therefore not governed by EU regulations.

Thank you for contacting us and for allowing me to clarify our position.

Yours sincerely

Customer Affairs UK

irishguy28

The ruling is here.

I would briefly write back and state, succinctly, that EK's interpretation is at odds with the ruling of the European Court of Justice in case C-11/11 of 26 February 2013:

They already know about this ruling. You just have to show them that you know it, too. That they are a non-community carrier is in no way relevant - your journey commenced in Birmingham, and therefore EU261/2004 applies to you, and your journey ended in Colombo [that this is outside the EU is irrelevant], not in Dubai [that this is outside the EU is also irrelevant]. The delay in getting you to Colombo far exceeds the time allowed so they are required to compensate you.

Keep the letter brief.

Only get a company (such as EUClaim) involved if they show further resistance.

eternaltransit

Actually it's not entirely as clear cut, as Dave Noble and I had a little discussion about some threads ago
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/emira...happens-2.html

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/emira...y-eu-comp.html

I would summarise here but I am about to board a flight!

DYKWIA

MoneyClaim Online if they refuse to budge

Dave Noble

There is no point getting livid - EK is not the only airline to try to avoid paying

Write back and state that under EC261, the delay is counted to the destination of the journey and not just to Dubai and that there was a 17 hour delay in arrival at the destination

State that it has 14 days to provide the EUR600 compensatio or that you will initiate proceedings

If in 2 weels, no payment is forthcoming, lodge a claim with money claim online

If it does go to court, do make sure to attend

kalashinikov

hi thanks for your all replies, waiting for eternaltransit's full reply. although in the mean time i have read about Folkerts

Thanks for you reply. I have read some Folkerts

http://pastie.org/10041494 - this is somewhat not in favor...

http://pastie.org/10041502 - this is in somewhat favor although emirates airline and its hub are outside the EU

any decent and sound legal advise is appreciated

HelloKittysMum

I've not had a proper response to my claim (3 hr delay MAN DXB with subsequent knock on delay of around 6 hrs into CMB) yet (just an acknowledgement) but have gone back giving them a further 14 days - otherwise I will commence legal proceedings. Small claims on-line is really easy so you don't need a solicitor.

kalashinikov

at least you have a hope in hell. if your plane doors opened 3 hours or more later than its schedule flight arrival you will be eligible for compo.

these two links pretty much sums up what emirates are playing at

1) https://www.dlapiper.com/~/media/Fil...soutsideEU.pdf

2) pastie.org/10041494

eternaltransit

Essentially this is what the issue was in the previous threads on this forum I linked.

Kinda of a short story:
Previously in the Schenkel case, the ECJ said that each individual unit in an itinerary needs to be evaluated independently as to whether the Regulation applies to it.

Then comes Folkerts, where there was an itinerary BRE-CDG-GRU-ASU on AF. There was a delay BRE-CDG, which triggered 250 EUR compensation. The pax was rebooked the next day on a flight which proceeded as normal, but arrived in ASU 19 hours late. The ECJ said because the arrival at final destination was 19 hours, the higher 600 EUR was payable, even though the initial delay that triggered the Regulation would in isolation only be worth 250 EUR compensation.

The problem arises in the fact that GRU-ASU was not on a community carrier and not within the EU/Community, so under the decision using Schenkel's logic, ASU was not the final destination for the purposes of the regulation as GRU-ASU is not in the scope of the regulation - even though it was mentioned specifically in the judgement in Folkerts. In the Folkerts case, 600 EUR is still payable because BRE-CDG-GRU is in the scope.

Now when it comes to your case, and many others, carriers such as EK claim that the Regulation's scope needs to be evaluated on a sector by sector basis, not on a "final destination" basis.

This is why there needs to be a test case to go to the ECJ.

However in your specific case, I would follow the advice above and still go through money claim online, because it's likely EK doesn't want it to be taken all the way in case they get an unfavourable ruling, and so will pay up.

You should however, contact your National Enforcement Body before going through the courts/small claims.
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes...nt_form_en.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/transport/themes/passengers/air/

kalashinikov

hey thanks for the reply.

If i go all the way with money claim online i will need some representation to put my case forward. i am by no means a legal test case researcher or any thing.

Ive have already put my complaint to CAA is that sufficient enough.

is it worth going ahead with a no win no fee company such as bott and co ?

Often1

EK and other non-community carriers have drawn a line in the sand on misconnects onto flights between points outside the community. While the connecting flight might be used to determine the level of compensation, it is far from clear that the EU in general and the ECJ in particular has any jurisdiction over conduct outside the EU.

The contingency services (the ones which take a slice of the pie) may be a good sounding board. They won't generally take cases unless they think they can win.

As you can imagine, most nations, the UAE here, tend to get just a bit concerned when other governments interfere in what they view as local matters or matters which are subject to their own bilateral negotiations.

Dave Noble

No , you need no representation - it is a simple process - just put the details of the claim clearly

I would not waste my time contacting the CAA - as an enforcement body it is severely lacking and has been shown to provide incorrect information

For this case, I would just take the MCOL route .

Dave Noble

I doubt that the OP will care at this point, but this seemed a good thread to highlight to anyone getting refusal from Emirates on EC261 where a misconnect in Dubai led to 3+ hours delay, that the court of Appeal has ruled against Emirates and has ruled that a misconnect in Dubai does give entitlement to EC compensation

See http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCA/Civ/2017/1530.html

kalashinikov

Hi Dave i do care we were a party of 5 and effected by the delay to sri lanka via dubai.

Do you think i have a case ?

i will be wrting to them in light of this new development. do i need to say or ref anything else other than this article. ?

many thank for reply to this thread. (Y)

[QUOTE=Dave Noble;28927223]I doubt that the OP will care at this point, but this seemed a good thread to highlight to anyone getting refusal from Emirates on EC261 where a misconnect in Dubai led to 3+ hours delay, that the court of Appeal has ruled against Emirates and has ruled that a misconnect in Dubai does give entitlement to EC compensation

ft101

Refer directly to the court case rather than the article. They may well appeal it to a higher court which will put you on hold, but no harm in trying just now.