I applaud others for continuing this thread. Sorry, I don't have the time right now to dig any deeper. I am still certain there is something "odd" about the way Emirates is "profitable," at least as it compares to other int'l carriers. Honestly, the business plan isn't good enough for it to be this successful, as evidenced by the fact that no other airline in the world seems to be able to operate in this manner. Over time, I'm sure more will be learned. I am most curious about how their books have been audited because, obviously, that's their best claim that their results are "genuine." I'm not an accountant, but I do wonder about off-balance sheet items. If anyone wanted to dig, that's where I'd start. I don't think the answer lies in their lower labor costs: that's obviously helpful to them, but could not be a sufficient savings to really make the difference.

In post 22, you said that you "worked as an analyst in this industry for decades". Surely this experience trumps that of a mere accountant.

Is this discussion still ongoing ? I seriously don't understand that people are taking the time and effort to explain to an industry expert how it works.

Ps it started with 5mln usd cash with wet leased ex PIA aircraft. And.....nah forget it. EK is here to stay.

Ps the village of Dubai also has the big Porsche dealership in the World, by pure numbers of cars sold per annum.

More millionaires than .... OMG that's not possible they must be faking it.

The F16's the UAE airforce fly are of a higher spec than the. USAF F16. oMG that's also impossible.

Well...the bail-out of Dubai by Abu Dhabi in 2009 at least showed us that there is a difference between growth and sustainable growth.
It's not all black and white, and that goes in both directions.

Then why post the thread in the first place? Your first post contained nothing but conjecture, and your subsequent posts have added nothing more.

I never said it was perfect and we werent talking about real-estate, that is a different kettle of fish. But Abu Dhabi bailing out Dubai is bit like Texas bailing out Mississippi , but that wouldnt happen, the government would simply raise the debt ceiling. Abu Dhabi chipped in through their surplus and received properties and collateral in return.

Thread reminds me of the Bluestar airlines scene in Wall Street :-) ....what did Gordo say?

...."Mixed emotions, Buddy. Like, Larry Wildman going off a cliff, in my new Maserati....what do I need another dink airline for?" :-)

Sorry back to the serious stuff....is a good read

"I am still certain there is something "odd" about the way Emirates is "profitable," at least as it compares to other int'l carriers."

Just stumbled across the tail end of this long and fascinating thread. Then stumbled across a quote from Friedrich Nietsche half an hour later: "Convictions are more dangerous foes of truth than lies" - seemed apposite somehow.

Which "economics" Smith or Marx? Who is the investor? Airlines exist only so the CEO can walk away every day with a bag of money equivalent to lifetime earnings of s steward.
One thing for certain - Emirates do not fly cattle like US based airlines do.

This doesn't agree: http://www.wsj.com/articles/airlines...ier-1418253130
My anecdotal Dubai-flight story: LHR->DBX in BA Y. It was empty. In my entire row, there were just 2 pax - on a 747! DBX->LHR was only slightly more crowded.

But F and J? Completely full.

Maybe you don't need to fill 600 seats - you just need to fill F & J.

Related: I've heard the the AMG version of the Mercedes G-series regularly outsells the base model in that region. Why not? It's only money.

I have heard this Emirates subsidy/scam story so many times. Always seems to pop up when a bunch of routes are announced and some of the legacy carriers CEOs choose to throw some darts. I have flown EK once, EY once, TK once and a host of other carriers and personally do not have any skin in this discussion. It is a bit ridiculous to hear talk about subsidies from legacy carriers who benefit from protectionist govt policies, pension fund deferrals, chapter 11 restructurings, etc. And normally there is sometimes talk about ME3 or Far East carriers and their 'slave' labor. and for good measure political issues. This is a lively discussion and I appreciate the clarity of arguments. I chose to conclude that the OP does not have the requisite data to support his conjecture. Emirates may prosper or fail but to base a conclusion of their business model only on existing legacy carriers is dangerously outdated. Several airlines have bucked this trend mostly in the LCC space. And there are other examples of where new business models have worked or have been game changers - Apple, Google, Amazon, etc. Not that EK is in those leagues but you get the point.

By the way, regarding "slave labor", it's quite the opposite:

Check what a reasonable living EK FA (hired recently) can put aside every month, and what a reasonable living LH FA (Taking LH as an example, as they're #1 complainers about EK) can.. even mainline (not even their even lower income LCCs) LH FA's do earn so little they can barely save anything. And even in raw numbers, their income is now lower than that of many EK FAs. Problem with many European carriers is their old contracts - their newer hires do earn breadcrumbs..

Is that the main reason why more and more flight attendants export milk powder to China on the side?

Unfortunately, you forget a major point, flight attendants in Germany actually spend a good chunk of their income to fuel several funds, health, pension, social security. ;)

You know what, Switzerland actually has a pretty good system, too. At least, until too many people do not pay taxes on their export business income. :eek:

Repeated personal attacks against other forum members using lies and false claims... you're so classy..

About the only non-personal attack part in your post, with the wages the LH FAs get (we're still talking about recently hired one's, not those with 1970's contracts!) they can not save ANYWHERE as enough (actually, nothing at all apart the very bare bones that the German system is requiring them to do) as having a decent pension fund later on - as pension funds will require MUCH more money every month than what would go into from their low wages to later have some decent funds.

With the income they get as EK FA's, they can save up much more and invest in what they think is smart, not into some governmental pensions that will be tiny when they eventually retire.

Simple numbers for anyone that can compare both systems unbiased.

Nobody was talking about the skilled labor jobs. ;)