Has Business class become the new Economy ?
Dec 17, 2013, 2:50 pm
#31
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: Skywards Gold, Etihad Gold
Posts: 462
I think sometimes in life we do get carried away with a lot of small things that niggle us from time to time, but maybe if I was in this Mother's shoes I certainly would have an axe to grind. This lady tried to book a flight on Emirates for her 13yr old daughter from Auckland to Brisbane on Friday last week as an unaccompanied minor and noted that she had mild Cerebral Palsy, but no special treatment required. Emirates told her that her daughter posed a risk to herself and that it was Emirates policy not to book passengers that basically were a hassle. Although the Mother told Emirates her Daughter posed no risk to anyone, including herself, never caused a ripple of bother on any flight she was still denied a ticket. The Mother was so shocked and angry by Emirates policy that she demanded that it be taken further on the basis that her Daughter doesn't have some contagious disease and why should or would it matter how long she had had her disability. The review by a man sitting in some gold line sky rise in Dubai that knows absolutely nothing about people in the real world let alone people who have disabilities rejected her right to fly. Thankfully due to overwhelming support, on Emirates A380 takes you to 23 destinations Facebook Page, Emirates have just conceded and finally let this minor fly. So in my book if anyone deserves that First Class Seat it is this young lady in flip flops or not.
Dec 17, 2013, 5:37 pm
#32
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 9,307
Dec 18, 2013, 12:12 am
#33
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Why would bad manners be a thing of Economy class? You seem to equate lower fare/cabin classes with worse behaviour. Not true, and very different by part of the world. In Europe you find less chavs upfront, the lager louts are usually in the back of the bus. In the ME I have seen more outrageous behaviour upfront, not the lager lout type but treating airline staff like sh**t, being noisy, taking room, not respecting queues, etc. Not so in the back, where people are more respectful. In Russia you have both, the new money bad behaviour in front and the lager louts in the back.
So the fact that you observe bad manners in J/F while expecting it in the back would possibly work in a "Western" world, but not elsewhere.
As for wardrobe: indeed, most people dress terribly. Everywhere, not just on planes. Whilst style and taste is debatable, what I mean by "terrible" is wearing out-of-situation or inappropriate wardrobe. Nothing wrong with flip flops, but they belong on/around the beach and similar places; track suits may be comfy for your home, but not in public; nothing wrong with jeans (I do wear them myself, in First Class), as long as they are clean. There is no need to over-do it and wear suit and tie or blazers and I am against a strict dress code, but I do object people looking like they are on a building site, on a beach or begging in the slums on airplanes, hotel lobbies, in offices. But I admit that I am biased - this comes from someone living in Paris where people get the less attractive tables in restaurants when they come in with those silly "University of Wisconsin" sweat shirts and tennis shoes. Well deserved.
So the fact that you observe bad manners in J/F while expecting it in the back would possibly work in a "Western" world, but not elsewhere.
As for wardrobe: indeed, most people dress terribly. Everywhere, not just on planes. Whilst style and taste is debatable, what I mean by "terrible" is wearing out-of-situation or inappropriate wardrobe. Nothing wrong with flip flops, but they belong on/around the beach and similar places; track suits may be comfy for your home, but not in public; nothing wrong with jeans (I do wear them myself, in First Class), as long as they are clean. There is no need to over-do it and wear suit and tie or blazers and I am against a strict dress code, but I do object people looking like they are on a building site, on a beach or begging in the slums on airplanes, hotel lobbies, in offices. But I admit that I am biased - this comes from someone living in Paris where people get the less attractive tables in restaurants when they come in with those silly "University of Wisconsin" sweat shirts and tennis shoes. Well deserved.
Dec 18, 2013, 1:57 am
#35
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK, US, UAE
Programs: BAEC Gold, EK Plat(Soon to be gold), HHonors Silver, Amex Gold
Posts: 185
Many sporty T-shirts are expensive than a suit from local high street shop..
Agreed that there should be manners to be maintained at all cost, but dress code and screaming kid's in lounges, nothing can be done about it. Just have to swallow it. In Dubai when we paid an excess money for a dinner in Burj, there was a restless troller in our next table. Nobody said anything,guess its the culture too in Middle-east for being child/family friendly.
Agreed that there should be manners to be maintained at all cost, but dress code and screaming kid's in lounges, nothing can be done about it. Just have to swallow it. In Dubai when we paid an excess money for a dinner in Burj, there was a restless troller in our next table. Nobody said anything,guess its the culture too in Middle-east for being child/family friendly.
Discipline is not something that seems to be instilled here - more of you can have what you want when you want and everyone should know that
Why would bad manners be a thing of Economy class? You seem to equate lower fare/cabin classes with worse behaviour. Not true, and very different by part of the world. In Europe you find less chavs upfront, the lager louts are usually in the back of the bus. In the ME I have seen more outrageous behaviour upfront, not the lager lout type but treating airline staff like sh**t, being noisy, taking room, not respecting queues, etc. Not so in the back, where people are more respectful. In Russia you have both, the new money bad behaviour in front and the lager louts in Economy. So the fact that you observe bad manners in J/F while expecting it in the back would possibly work in a "Western" world, but not elsewhere.
As for wardrobe: indeed, most people dress terribly. Everywhere, not just on planes. Whilst style and taste is debatable, what I mean by "terrible" is wearing out-of-situation or inappropriate wardrobe. Nothing wrong with flip flops, but they belong on/around the beach and similar places; track suits may be comfy for your home, but not in public; nothing wrong with jeans (I do wear them myself, in First Class), as long as they are clean. There is no
need to over-do it and wear suit and tie or blazers and I am against a strict dress code, but I do object people looking like they are on a building site, on a beach or begging in the slums on airplanes, hotel lobbies, in offices. But I admit that I am biased - this comes from someone living in Paris where people get the less attractive tables in restaurants when they come in with those silly "University of Wisconsin" sweat shirts and tennis shoes. Well deserved.
As for wardrobe: indeed, most people dress terribly. Everywhere, not just on planes. Whilst style and taste is debatable, what I mean by "terrible" is wearing out-of-situation or inappropriate wardrobe. Nothing wrong with flip flops, but they belong on/around the beach and similar places; track suits may be comfy for your home, but not in public; nothing wrong with jeans (I do wear them myself, in First Class), as long as they are clean. There is no
need to over-do it and wear suit and tie or blazers and I am against a strict dress code, but I do object people looking like they are on a building site, on a beach or begging in the slums on airplanes, hotel lobbies, in offices. But I admit that I am biased - this comes from someone living in Paris where people get the less attractive tables in restaurants when they come in with those silly "University of Wisconsin" sweat shirts and tennis shoes. Well deserved.
Statistically more bad manners and the 'I want I want' syndrome comes from J/C more than Y/C or F/C.
However the same does not apply to Emirates.
With overbookings galore on EK this applies to every cabin.
I think sometimes in life we do get carried away with a lot of small things that niggle us from time to time, but maybe if I was in this Mother's shoes I certainly would have an axe to grind. This lady tried to book a flight on Emirates for her 13yr old daughter from Auckland to Brisbane on Friday last week as an unaccompanied minor and noted that she had mild Cerebral Palsy, but no special treatment required. Emirates told her that her daughter posed a risk to herself and that it was Emirates policy not to book passengers that basically were a hassle. Although the Mother told Emirates her Daughter posed no risk to anyone, including herself, never caused a ripple of bother on any flight she was still denied a ticket. The Mother was so shocked and angry by Emirates policy that she demanded that it be taken further on the basis that her Daughter doesn't have some contagious disease and why should or would it matter how long she had had her disability. The review by a man sitting in some gold line sky rise in Dubai that knows absolutely nothing about people in the real world let alone people who have disabilities rejected her right to fly. Thankfully due to overwhelming support, on Emirates A380 takes you to 23 destinations Facebook Page, Emirates have just conceded and finally let this minor fly. So in my book if anyone deserves that First Class Seat it is this young lady in flip flops or not.
Publically though they portray a different story and its all smoke and mirrors.
Dec 18, 2013, 2:16 am
#36
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Posts: 7,836
Unless of course you belong to the school of thought that advocates that the actual parents should actually educate their children. Phew. Dream on. Not in this part of the world.
(Level of sarcasm higher than level of exaggeration)
Dec 18, 2013, 2:24 am
#37
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- Just because YOU are working doesn't mean the vast majority of the flying public is as well, so your post does not prove OP "wrong"
- You may be working on the plane, but unless you're a pilot, FA, or Air Marshall, you're not likely "at work" on the flight
Dec 18, 2013, 2:35 am
#38
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: UK, US, UAE
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You are right. But the US, too, is a "parvenu" culture. It may be 3-4 generations ahead of some of the MidEast emerging markets but it doesn't have the legacy of several centuries of social code that Europe has. I am not saying it is a good thing, and to many a European the US feel "refreshingly informal" and Europe may be stifling. But it's the recent-ness of the society and the fact that until about 100 years ago American immigrants were mostly people that did not succeed in Europe or where on the margins of established society. Again, no judgement, America has done tremendously well with that development, but the society was formed by people who did not bring with them the strict protocol and social code which was lived by the feudal upper classes in Europe.
Get real. You are expecting a lot of those Philippine nannies-acting-as-replacement-parents. No way can they instill civic sense, responsibility and respect into those spoiled brats, the kids treat them like sh**t just like every adult treats them.
Unless of course you belong to the school of thought that advocates that the actual parents should actually educate their children. Phew. Dream on. Not in this part of the world.
(Level of sarcasm higher than level of exaggeration)
Get real. You are expecting a lot of those Philippine nannies-acting-as-replacement-parents. No way can they instill civic sense, responsibility and respect into those spoiled brats, the kids treat them like sh**t just like every adult treats them.
Unless of course you belong to the school of thought that advocates that the actual parents should actually educate their children. Phew. Dream on. Not in this part of the world.
(Level of sarcasm higher than level of exaggeration)
Now I'm not old but I am old for my age and I still think of the old days of aviation, unfortunately thats not how it is anymore. I still believe in dressing reasonably well on the aircraft, although I must admit my usual travel is a polo shirt and jeans but no flip flops - ever.
Going to the nanny thing - most don't have the authority to deal with them or they will be sacked by the family, and for the most part the nanny's are sending most their money back home. Its a lesser of two evils, get sacked and look for another job and lose money or let the kid be take the money and after a few years let someone else deal with it.
I don't blame the nanny's, I know plenty families here with children of western culture who's nanny's are treated with respect and dignity and are able to tell the kids off so its not all (regardless of cultures but I do not know them)
However to your view point I am of the impression that parents should raise their own children and deal with the kids appropriately, I was, I went to a good school in the U.K, not boarding (not saying if you have a nanny everyone will turn out badly, my GF had 2 nanny's as a kid and she's as well mannered and behaved as you will ever find) etc.
Now, on flights the crew cannot say anything but you and I certainly can as a fellow fare paying passenger and I have and will continue to put kids in their place regardless of their nationality and call me arrogant, obnoxious or downright rude but if I'm trying to sleep and some little s**t is running around the F Cabin screaming and shouting I'll bloody well tell them to hush it.
Last edited by DXBFlyer; Dec 18, 2013 at 4:06 am Reason: less crass generalisation
Dec 18, 2013, 3:44 am
#39
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: 30,000ft
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Posts: 670
Has Business class become the new Economy ?
Odd the holier than thou judgement of other cultures as being somehow rude or inferior. I do not like the crass generalisations of "they are all spilt brats" or "they all treat their hired help badly". Firstly this isn't true and secondly it's actually rude and offensive to make these generalisations and ironic when the poster is complaining about other people's rude and offensive behaviour ! I could easily say if you don't like your own tax free expat con life style go back to the civilised west but that would be rude! Anyway rant over back on topic. I doubt most people posting, myself including, have ever actually seen the so called nostalgic golden era of travel. I am sure it had just as many issues as we see today just different ones. I don't think the Rolling Stones or the Beatles dressed up tho when they travelled!
Dec 18, 2013, 4:30 am
#40
Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Eurostar Carte Blanche, SBB-CFF-FFS GA-AG, SNCF Grand Voyageur LeClub
Posts: 7,836
Funny how some things just don't travel between cultures. I re-edited my post to add that my points about nannies and parents was 1) very sarcastic/ironic and 2) exaggerated, to make the point.
But even that didn't prevent some people from taking it at face value.
Sorry if it offended you, but rest assured that I do not mean things as extremely when I write them with a (to me and many) biiiiig dose of irony. Sorry if either my language didn't bring that across or you are less familiar with the concept.
But even that didn't prevent some people from taking it at face value.
Sorry if it offended you, but rest assured that I do not mean things as extremely when I write them with a (to me and many) biiiiig dose of irony. Sorry if either my language didn't bring that across or you are less familiar with the concept.
Dec 18, 2013, 5:04 am
#41
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: West Coast, USA
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Dec 18, 2013, 5:46 am
#43
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Poland
Programs: Emirates Skywards, IHG Rewards Club
Posts: 203
or had different reason of double beep.last time several problem with my (e-)boarding pass at gate in DXB, finally works, double beep(!)
Guy at gate not sure what to do, asked someone other, results: everything ok I can go to air plane. So, no ops this time.
