Operational upgrades - how can you choose when to block them?
Jan 2, 2012, 5:11 am
#16
Join Date: Aug 2008
Programs: EK Gold, EY Gold, BA Gold OW Emerald, A3 *G, SV Skyteam Elite
Posts: 972
B747 - Honestly how long does it take you to get some Y passenger with the seat that you prefer (there is at least a few of them in Y I am sure) to swap with a J middleseat?
Jan 2, 2012, 11:02 am
#17
Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 1,941
Jan 3, 2012, 6:05 am
#18
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Exile
Posts: 15,654
I think most of the respondents here are missing my point. Lets leave aside the fact that the seat is in "Business Class" for now. What if Emirates instead chose to change my seat to a middle seat in Economy Class. Not once, not twice but FOUR times in a year. And the reason given is that "oh, we didn't think you'd mind because you're one of our best customers". Would that be acceptable? I didn't think so.
For someone like me, on a short flight (<10 hours) there is pretty much no difference between Economy and Business Class. More often than not, I don't eat the food, drink the alcohol, watch the movies or do anything other than sleep and read my own materials. I bring my own snacks, my own drinks (Diet Coke and Water) and my own eyemask with Do-Not-Disturb plastered all over it. I do not want to interact with the crew. I don't care to be welcomed back on board. Just STFU and get me to my destination already. To me, a middle seat in Business Class is a DOWNGRADE from a preferred seat in Economy Class. As someone here noted, that's personal preference. I don't turn down upgrades or even re-seating to aisle seats or window seats in Business Class or even Economy Class. Just don't put me in a middle seat. It's not an unreasonable request.
Finally, for those who say that "you can easily get someone to swap", well that may be true. But that's really not my job to do is it? I took the time to select my seat once already, and confirmed it when I checked in at the counter. If Emirates wants to move me now due to their own incompetence in revenue management, it should be their responsibility to arrange the swap to the satisfaction of all concerned, not mine. That's the point I'm trying to make. Why pass the buck on to passengers, indeed not just any passengers but your top tier Skywards Gold passengers?
For someone like me, on a short flight (<10 hours) there is pretty much no difference between Economy and Business Class. More often than not, I don't eat the food, drink the alcohol, watch the movies or do anything other than sleep and read my own materials. I bring my own snacks, my own drinks (Diet Coke and Water) and my own eyemask with Do-Not-Disturb plastered all over it. I do not want to interact with the crew. I don't care to be welcomed back on board. Just STFU and get me to my destination already. To me, a middle seat in Business Class is a DOWNGRADE from a preferred seat in Economy Class. As someone here noted, that's personal preference. I don't turn down upgrades or even re-seating to aisle seats or window seats in Business Class or even Economy Class. Just don't put me in a middle seat. It's not an unreasonable request.
Finally, for those who say that "you can easily get someone to swap", well that may be true. But that's really not my job to do is it? I took the time to select my seat once already, and confirmed it when I checked in at the counter. If Emirates wants to move me now due to their own incompetence in revenue management, it should be their responsibility to arrange the swap to the satisfaction of all concerned, not mine. That's the point I'm trying to make. Why pass the buck on to passengers, indeed not just any passengers but your top tier Skywards Gold passengers?
Jan 3, 2012, 2:39 pm
#19
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London
Programs: BA Gold, EK Gold, GF Silver, IC Royal Ambass, Marriott Gold, TK Elite
Posts: 902
But your case is not about a move within economy class is it. I would agree that moving a top tier passenger to an inferior seat within the same cabin is not good practice. However, how is the person in the back office supposed to know that mr gold card does not welcome an upgrade?? I don't think it's unreasonable for them to think that they are doing you a favour.
Jan 3, 2012, 2:50 pm
#20
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Pennsylvania
Programs: AA Platinum Pro, AC *S, Marriott Gold Elite, Hyatt Explorist
Posts: 9,689
I *kind* of see what you are saying. What I think you are saying is that you prefer an aisle Y seat or any middle seat and to you a middle J is almost as bad a middle Y.
I think in your case you just need to accept that your opinion of a good seat differs from the vast majority of opinions. And unfortunately, EK doesn't have the time / capacity to tailor make its system towards such unique preferences. (This is meant to sound a lot less obnoxious than it's coming off, sorry!) It sucks that you get moved around, but such is life. I think EK's current system works towards the airline's advantage as well as to the vast majority of EK pax.
If I were you, I would try and 'sell' the J seat to a Y pax. For something like $200 cash on an 8 hr flight I'm sure people would be lining up.
Two interesting (IMHO) ancedotes.
1. One of my friends 'prefers' a middle seat. He's a bit weird. He was unhappy that he was unable to select "middle" for seat preferences. He's in a similar position to you. Airlines do not think that people would ever prefer middle seats and unfortunately the minority that do have to deal with the system. In your case, the rule that J>Y is not true so the system might not work to your advantage.
2. Another one of my friends can only sit in the aisle on the left side of the plane in one of the first few rows. (I would say few is first 4 or 5 rows.) No exceptions. If she cannot obtain said seat she takes another flight. It's weird and has cost her time and money in the past. It's more of an irrational fear type thing (she is scared sitting in other seats - I don't get why) but she has come to accept airline's systems may not always be able to accommodate her. Usually she asks for a note to be put in not to change her seat but she has been moved from a pre-assigned "C" seat to other aisles, other rows, or even to a window in J. The J seat was declined and she was moved back to her original seat.
I think in your case you just need to accept that your opinion of a good seat differs from the vast majority of opinions. And unfortunately, EK doesn't have the time / capacity to tailor make its system towards such unique preferences. (This is meant to sound a lot less obnoxious than it's coming off, sorry!) It sucks that you get moved around, but such is life. I think EK's current system works towards the airline's advantage as well as to the vast majority of EK pax.
If I were you, I would try and 'sell' the J seat to a Y pax. For something like $200 cash on an 8 hr flight I'm sure people would be lining up.
Two interesting (IMHO) ancedotes.
1. One of my friends 'prefers' a middle seat. He's a bit weird. He was unhappy that he was unable to select "middle" for seat preferences. He's in a similar position to you. Airlines do not think that people would ever prefer middle seats and unfortunately the minority that do have to deal with the system. In your case, the rule that J>Y is not true so the system might not work to your advantage.
2. Another one of my friends can only sit in the aisle on the left side of the plane in one of the first few rows. (I would say few is first 4 or 5 rows.) No exceptions. If she cannot obtain said seat she takes another flight. It's weird and has cost her time and money in the past. It's more of an irrational fear type thing (she is scared sitting in other seats - I don't get why) but she has come to accept airline's systems may not always be able to accommodate her. Usually she asks for a note to be put in not to change her seat but she has been moved from a pre-assigned "C" seat to other aisles, other rows, or even to a window in J. The J seat was declined and she was moved back to her original seat.
I think most of the respondents here are missing my point. Lets leave aside the fact that the seat is in "Business Class" for now. What if Emirates instead chose to change my seat to a middle seat in Economy Class. Not once, not twice but FOUR times in a year. And the reason given is that "oh, we didn't think you'd mind because you're one of our best customers". Would that be acceptable? I didn't think so.
For someone like me, on a short flight (<10 hours) there is pretty much no difference between Economy and Business Class. More often than not, I don't eat the food, drink the alcohol, watch the movies or do anything other than sleep and read my own materials. I bring my own snacks, my own drinks (Diet Coke and Water) and my own eyemask with Do-Not-Disturb plastered all over it. I do not want to interact with the crew. I don't care to be welcomed back on board. Just STFU and get me to my destination already. To me, a middle seat in Business Class is a DOWNGRADE from a preferred seat in Economy Class. As someone here noted, that's personal preference. I don't turn down upgrades or even re-seating to aisle seats or window seats in Business Class or even Economy Class. Just don't put me in a middle seat. It's not an unreasonable request.
Finally, for those who say that "you can easily get someone to swap", well that may be true. But that's really not my job to do is it? I took the time to select my seat once already, and confirmed it when I checked in at the counter. If Emirates wants to move me now due to their own incompetence in revenue management, it should be their responsibility to arrange the swap to the satisfaction of all concerned, not mine. That's the point I'm trying to make. Why pass the buck on to passengers, indeed not just any passengers but your top tier Skywards Gold passengers?
For someone like me, on a short flight (<10 hours) there is pretty much no difference between Economy and Business Class. More often than not, I don't eat the food, drink the alcohol, watch the movies or do anything other than sleep and read my own materials. I bring my own snacks, my own drinks (Diet Coke and Water) and my own eyemask with Do-Not-Disturb plastered all over it. I do not want to interact with the crew. I don't care to be welcomed back on board. Just STFU and get me to my destination already. To me, a middle seat in Business Class is a DOWNGRADE from a preferred seat in Economy Class. As someone here noted, that's personal preference. I don't turn down upgrades or even re-seating to aisle seats or window seats in Business Class or even Economy Class. Just don't put me in a middle seat. It's not an unreasonable request.
Finally, for those who say that "you can easily get someone to swap", well that may be true. But that's really not my job to do is it? I took the time to select my seat once already, and confirmed it when I checked in at the counter. If Emirates wants to move me now due to their own incompetence in revenue management, it should be their responsibility to arrange the swap to the satisfaction of all concerned, not mine. That's the point I'm trying to make. Why pass the buck on to passengers, indeed not just any passengers but your top tier Skywards Gold passengers?
Jan 3, 2012, 2:59 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: AU
Programs: former Olympic Airways Gold (yeah - still proud of that!)
Posts: 14,401
747... I'm still a little confused I guess. if you like to get on board and just go to sleep... a middle seat seams ideal no? no one to climb out over you, lots of recline, and noise canceling headphones.
in economy you either have people climbing over you. even if you have a window seat, you are still sharing an armrest and having to endure longer periods of cabin service.
I guess somehow the people at EK would see looking after a top tier in a quieter environment as being a bonus...
in economy you either have people climbing over you. even if you have a window seat, you are still sharing an armrest and having to endure longer periods of cabin service.
I guess somehow the people at EK would see looking after a top tier in a quieter environment as being a bonus...
Jan 3, 2012, 3:55 pm
#23
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Programs: Skywards Blue :-(, HHonors Gold, SPG Gold, GHA Platinum
Posts: 2,531
I *kind* of see what you are saying. What I think you are saying is that you prefer an aisle Y seat or any middle seat and to you a middle J is almost as bad a middle Y.
I think in your case you just need to accept that your opinion of a good seat differs from the vast majority of opinions. And unfortunately, EK doesn't have the time / capacity to tailor make its system towards such unique preferences. (This is meant to sound a lot less obnoxious than it's coming off, sorry!) It sucks that you get moved around, but such is life. I think EK's current system works towards the airline's advantage as well as to the vast majority of EK pax.
If I were you, I would try and 'sell' the J seat to a Y pax. For something like $200 cash on an 8 hr flight I'm sure people would be lining up.
Two interesting (IMHO) ancedotes.
1. One of my friends 'prefers' a middle seat. He's a bit weird. He was unhappy that he was unable to select "middle" for seat preferences. He's in a similar position to you. Airlines do not think that people would ever prefer middle seats and unfortunately the minority that do have to deal with the system. In your case, the rule that J>Y is not true so the system might not work to your advantage.
2. Another one of my friends can only sit in the aisle on the left side of the plane in one of the first few rows. (I would say few is first 4 or 5 rows.) No exceptions. If she cannot obtain said seat she takes another flight. It's weird and has cost her time and money in the past. It's more of an irrational fear type thing (she is scared sitting in other seats - I don't get why) but she has come to accept airline's systems may not always be able to accommodate her. Usually she asks for a note to be put in not to change her seat but she has been moved from a pre-assigned "C" seat to other aisles, other rows, or even to a window in J. The J seat was declined and she was moved back to her original seat.
I think in your case you just need to accept that your opinion of a good seat differs from the vast majority of opinions. And unfortunately, EK doesn't have the time / capacity to tailor make its system towards such unique preferences. (This is meant to sound a lot less obnoxious than it's coming off, sorry!) It sucks that you get moved around, but such is life. I think EK's current system works towards the airline's advantage as well as to the vast majority of EK pax.
If I were you, I would try and 'sell' the J seat to a Y pax. For something like $200 cash on an 8 hr flight I'm sure people would be lining up.
Two interesting (IMHO) ancedotes.
1. One of my friends 'prefers' a middle seat. He's a bit weird. He was unhappy that he was unable to select "middle" for seat preferences. He's in a similar position to you. Airlines do not think that people would ever prefer middle seats and unfortunately the minority that do have to deal with the system. In your case, the rule that J>Y is not true so the system might not work to your advantage.
2. Another one of my friends can only sit in the aisle on the left side of the plane in one of the first few rows. (I would say few is first 4 or 5 rows.) No exceptions. If she cannot obtain said seat she takes another flight. It's weird and has cost her time and money in the past. It's more of an irrational fear type thing (she is scared sitting in other seats - I don't get why) but she has come to accept airline's systems may not always be able to accommodate her. Usually she asks for a note to be put in not to change her seat but she has been moved from a pre-assigned "C" seat to other aisles, other rows, or even to a window in J. The J seat was declined and she was moved back to her original seat.
I can only sit on the right side of the plane
. I dont mind the row though. I am usually okay on shorter flights though.
Jan 3, 2012, 11:18 pm
#24
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: OSL
Programs: BA Gold | SK Gold | A3 Gold
Posts: 4,553
Two interesting (IMHO) ancedotes.
2. Another one of my friends can only sit in the aisle on the left side of the plane in one of the first few rows. (I would say few is first 4 or 5 rows.) No exceptions. If she cannot obtain said seat she takes another flight. It's weird and has cost her time and money in the past. It's more of an irrational fear type thing (she is scared sitting in other seats - I don't get why) but she has come to accept airline's systems may not always be able to accommodate her. Usually she asks for a note to be put in not to change her seat but she has been moved from a pre-assigned "C" seat to other aisles, other rows, or even to a window in J. The J seat was declined and she was moved back to her original seat.
I did about 4 sectors on SQ in Y a few years ago, always 34G.
With EK, it is always an emergency exit aisle, a bulkhead if that isn't available, and 17-22 G if a bulkhead isn't available. I'll make an exception if I can get a blocked seat or an entire row to sleep. In J, 6A/K, and in F, 1/2 A.
Jan 4, 2012, 12:39 am
#25
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Programs: Skywards Blue :-(, HHonors Gold, SPG Gold, GHA Platinum
Posts: 2,531
I'm a bit like that too - I think it's a matter of preference, but I'm not so inflexible as to have to change flights if I can't get the seat I want.
I did about 4 sectors on SQ in Y a few years ago, always 34G.
With EK, it is always an emergency exit aisle, a bulkhead if that isn't available, and 17-22 G if a bulkhead isn't available. I'll make an exception if I can get a blocked seat or an entire row to sleep. In J, 6A/K, and in F, 1/2 A.
I did about 4 sectors on SQ in Y a few years ago, always 34G.
With EK, it is always an emergency exit aisle, a bulkhead if that isn't available, and 17-22 G if a bulkhead isn't available. I'll make an exception if I can get a blocked seat or an entire row to sleep. In J, 6A/K, and in F, 1/2 A.
Jan 10, 2012, 5:35 am
#27
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Dubai, UAE
Programs: BA GGL, EK Plat, Hilton Diamond, AMEX Plat
Posts: 171
