i edited my earlier post to make it clearer.. i meant i wish they would offer more info themselves.. our seeking does not seem to help much :(

Thats true, but FWIW I've sent feedback to EK that due to these changes and the lounge access reduction, i'll be off to other carriers in future. :(

So just now if I go to emirates.com and attempt to book a return flight DXB-SFO in economy for AED 7955 I get 14,000 Tier Miles and both legs are labeled as Flex under miles earned. However when you click fare conditions it says
"THE ORIGINAL AND THE REISSUED TICKET MUST BE ANNOTATED - NON-END/SKYWARDS SAVER/ - IN THE ENDORSEMENT BOX."

I also have a booking I made which still shows flex miles in "manage your booking" but on the eticket it says "NON-END/SKYWARDS SAVER/ *BR-EK*"

This raises 2 questions:

Do we earn flex miles based on what we saw when booking and what we can still see in manage your booking?
Why are we seeing flex miles but saver in the ticket?
What is the difference between NON-END/SKYWARDS SAVER and NON-END/SKYWARDS SAVER/ *BR-EK*

Lots of questions, no answers from Emirates. I am holding on pulling the trigger on AED 25,000 worth of bookings until I'm 100% sure I will get all the miles I always used to get, which the website still shows!

So what do I do now ??
 

Hmmm.. So i booked a ticket with EK for travel in 10 days.. Saw the itinerary from EK site, showed flex miles.. booked thru corp TA for same fare.. Ticket says the following ''
NON-END/SKYWARDS SAVER//VALID ON EK/NON-END/SKYWARDS FLEX/
Ongoing shows class B and return class E..

In the online site and also in skywards miles shows for the whole journey are still flex and tier miles as that for flex..
So something similar to question by jayleb.. :(
To note this was not a cheap fare.. Lowest fares in this sector ( CCU - DXB - DME) are about INR 48k.. this was INR 69k..

The short answer is that if you think you are confused, the people at Skywards are too. EK continues to make it impossible to guarantee that when one books travel, it is going to be a flex fare. If one segment is saver, the whole ticket gets endorsed as saver and you will get a multitude of answers from Skywards as to how many miles you will actually earn. It has been 16 months now since the implementation of the "new, improved programme" where you earn less and have to spend more to get an award. With improvements like these, you are better off finding a new airline. Until people switch to an airline that provides more transparency and actually trains their employees or contractors to understand their own rules, they will continue to pull this kind of thing. Give your money to another airline and perhaps then somebody at EK will actually pay attention to the customers that give them their profits.

yes, but my ticket shows both saver and flex as mentioned below..
and unfortunately for me, the options from my location CCU are quite limited and EK has the best options mostly.. :(
IIRC, there was earlier some discussion ( am trying to search for that thread) on different fare classes and whether they are saver or flex..that should make it little clearer..

The issue is that EK does not use specific fare classes as most airlines do to differentiate between saver and flex fares. In fact there could be 2 B class fares or M class fares that are almost the same price but one is flex and one is saver--even in the exact same market. Of course, unless some kind of override by specific fare basis code is done by a travel agent, you are always going to either unnecessarily pay a higher fare or end up with a saver ticket. They just have not thought through the practical implementation of this. Even DL which by many counts has a horrible booking engine can get the "book me in a XXX class or higher" if you want to get full miles right.

As stated before, if you find EK is most convenient, then you will have to put up with the fact that you will not necessarily know whether you will get full or half miles. If that is an acceptable trade off, then go for it. If not, look elsewhere until they can implement a system which actually works and is understandable by both their customers and their employees.

hmmm.. seems I will have to wait for the flights to get credited to know the exact situation :(..
hv kept the print screens of the current mileage shown nevertheless..

The Skywards Terms and Conditions define "Skywards Flex Fare" and "Skywards Saver Fare" as:


"Skywards Flex Fare means an Emirates commercial fare which is not subject to the Skywards Saver Fare restrictions (defined below);

Skywards Saver Fare means an Emirates fare which is subject to any eligibility restrictions relating to purchase (including, but not limited to, 'students'; 'seniors', 'seaman'; 'missionary'; 'cruise'; 'youth'; 'companions'; 'groups'; 'inclusive-tours'; 'air passes') and/or has a limited sales period (a 'must purchase by' date), and all fares sold by other airlines for journeys partly flown on Emirates;

7.3 On Qualifying Flights a Member will earn 100% of Base Miles when he or she purchases a Skywards Flex Fare and 50% of Base Miles when he or she purchases a Skywards Saver Fare. Paper tickets will accrue only 50% of Base Miles, irrespective of the fare purchased. Miles earned contribute to both the members Skywards Miles and tier miles accounts."


I suggest finding a Flex Fare on the online booking itinerary with Saver Fare on the Fare Conditions. Then find a Flex Fare on the online booking itinerary with Flex on the Fare Conditions, and compare the content of the Fare Conditions side by side.

If they are equivalent (except for replacing the word Flex with Saver) or substantially similar, then you can argue to Skywards you purchased a Flex Fare, since the Fare Conditions were not subject to "eligibility restrictions", as defined in the Skywards Terms and Conditions.

Edit: An analogy would be the act of purchasing apples. Suppose there are only two types, red and green. Skywards defines Flex as "any apple which is not green", and Saver as "any apple which is green". Skywards did not define what constitutes a red apple, but by implication (since there are only 2 types) an apple of questionable colour cannot be green if there's proof it's equivalent to the other type of apple, and if it's not green, then by Skyward's own admission it's defined as Flex (amended)

Come back to LH CL!

Am sitting in the FRA FCL on my way to Mumbai, and the UA/LH combo is just awesome with being able to use SWU's to u/g to F on LH subject to availability - which is completely fair and makes sense that you can't confirm these in advance, but that you can get them at the airport.

With the addition of CO and the EWR-India non-stops, UA/LH just blows EK out of the water for residents in the US traveling to India regularly on work in paid C/J.

Have one last EK trip booked this summer with my wife and infant son on Y (the change in lounge access rules has really turned me off EK), and will try to use my ~150K odd EK miles to upgrade. If not - I'll buy something on High Street and am calling it curtains on EK. May still make the occasional J trip on EK if the fare is low, but there's almost no value in keeping Gold when flying on J and so it's certainly curtains on EK Gold, even if not on EK itself.

+1 (not taking your family on an EK trip though ;)

I spent some thoughts on my next trips and I must admit that EK became less competitive based on the prices. I think they had awesome fares last year but now being on the same level or even above the prices of LH, SQ et al I cannnot really think of a reason to go with EK when comparing *G and Skywards Gold benefits, so curtains closed for the time being.

Ref the posts on Flex being displayed in the Miles Breakdown when making a booking but the Fare Conditions showing Saver.

I am about to make a booking and thought I'd try to clarify this so sent off an email to EK. They told me (based on the cost of my ticket) that it was a Saver, not a Flex and they will arrange for the Miles Breakdown screen information to be corrected. It would be almost £200 extra (on a Y ticket) to book a flex fare via the call centre.

I hope that those of you that have booked these fares have screenshots, if not then get some now if you want something to argue your case with.

I have now gone back and asked which fare rules make it so, quoting from post #89 in this thread.

I'm based in CCU as well, and EK does offer the most flights out of here. I fly to the US regularly, and put up with the long flight to the West Coast from DXB because I am (was?) loyal to EK.

My flights next month are taking me back to Star, doing a TG/UA combo that saves me a lot of time and gives me shorter flights. I'm also seriously considering giving up on EK completely, and switching back to TG/UA/LH.

I like the op-ups and I like the service in CCU for EK, but I think I prefer being 1K more, and I don't fly enough to maintain both 1K and Skywards Gold. It's one or the other, and devaluations in the program, with rising costs on EK tickets, mean that they've made my decision easier.

If only LH flew everyday and not 3 times a week from CCU, this would be a slamdunk!

while i have the screen shots, this is not something I would be wanting to do regularly..
Its so surprising that they hv not yet stabilised their systems more than 1 yr after launch of this saver and flex thing.. If there is a mismatch, then IMHO benefit of the doubt should go to the customer simply because its EK's inefficiency which has created that doubt in the first place ..

If anyone has any suggestions on how to send feedback to EK in a way that would merit any reasoned reply, I'm glad for tips on that. Otherwise, I agree with the suggestion that either you accept that its a crapshoot (or whatever metaphor you'd like to use) with tickets on EK for the time being, or you vote with your feet and decide to fly another carrier instead.

If more people did that EK would be more likely to review their practices, but it appears they have a VERY loyal ridership. Good luck to them.

Going via the Contact Us By Email section on their website got me a quick, pretty reasonable response in less than one hour (see post 92). In the end I'd had 3 emails in just over 3 hours as I passed on, or requested, more information. This was with the UK office over a holiday weekend so quite impressive.

It ended up with them having to check with Skywards and I haven't heard anything since so not so good.

Update: Response received saying it's a known issue and they will honour Flex miles if displayed during the booking process until the bug is fixed.

Below is the feedback I sent via Skywards webpage, and the response i got 10 days later.

They concentrate on the lounge access issue with only a brief mention of the ticketing issue which i had written about. I suppose it is a response, but "Emirates Customer Affairs & Service Audit department" sounds like another name for the waste paper bin to me!!

Thus the process of "down-managing" expectations continues....:td:



On 14/04/11 12:31, yanny baba wrote:
> Skywards Feedback
>
> Feedback details:

> Regrettably, the recent changes to both availability and price of Flex
> fares, combined with the loss of lounge access for my guests when
> travelling in Y class, will result in me taking my future business to other
> airlines, unless otherwise unavoidable

kind regards

Yanny baba

Dear Mr. Baba,

Thank you for your email regarding the recent update on lounge access for a guest when travelling in Economy Class.

We wish to advise that the suspension is temporary as we plan to reinstate this benefit as soon as we are able to improve the current constraints in our facilities. . Please be assured that your personal lounge access across the Emirates network remains unaffected. If you are traveling on First or Business Class with Emirates, and your guest is traveling in Economy Class, you are entitled to invite your guest to the lounge.

We appreciate your feedback regarding the availability and prices of Flex Fares. We have forwarded your concern to the Emirates Customer Affairs & Service Audit department for their records.

We regret that you are considering other airlines for your future travels. At Emirates, we endeavour to offer miles on all fares, unlike some of our competitors. We would like to reaffirm that we remain committed to the benefits offered to our Gold members. At Dubai Airport Terminal 3, a dedicated Gold check-in area is available for your convenience. At all other airports around the world Gold members may check in at the Business Class counters, or at exclusively dedicated Silver and Gold check-in counters.

Gold members also enjoy the 16kg additional baggage allowance, the 50% Gold tier bonus Miles and the guaranteed seat benefits. To recognise and reward our Gold members, we have been offering the exclusive Rewarding Journeys promotion every year which rewards you based on the flights that you book and travel during the promotion period.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and we appreciate your understanding whilst we undertake a major programme of expanding our existing lounges and building additional lounges across Emirates network.


Yours sincerely,

Kwin Hayden de Guzman
Skywards Member Services

Yup, I got flex miles which were shown online even though the ticket showed saver.. But can say that the saver was also priced quite high :(

Btw.. IIRC, some discussion long time back about making a list of various fare classes and the bucket it falls under . Does anyone have the link to that ?

thanks

Did you have to chase them for the higher miles or did you get them automatically?

If you mean which fare bucket was Flex and which was Saver I don't think it works like that. There could be two tickets in the same bucket one of which is Flex and one Saver.

It was credited automatically.. I had the print screen handy in any case ..

I mean if fare class B is Saver and E is flex.. I guess each fare class is mapped to either saver or flex since the ticket price is determined by the fare classes..By buckets I meant Saver or Flex.. I guess say B,C,D,E are fare classes , all tickets issued under those would fall either under Saver or Flex. .
R u saying some tickets of B would be Flex and some Saver :eek:

That is exactly what I meant.

I think it's time you got an expertflyer subscription.

Different fare buckets mean different things depending on POS and route being flown, so there is no mapping of fare buckets to flex saver. On some routes, you could have multiple fares in a bucket, some of which are flex and others that are saver.

hmmm.. I wish I flew that much ;)

:eek:.. so EK doesnt like simplifying things I guess.. no wonder saver / flex fares, miles etc are mixed up..

Indeed. And this is what makes things even more confusing. On BA and AA, I know exactly what fare codes earn in terms of points and miles. For the most part, it's not all that difficult to specify when I want to book a higher fare for miles. I have found that even though EK defines Flex fares as "year round" fares, there are times when I have seen fares with no date restrictions (on EF) price as Saver on the website. Couple this with the fact that there is no way to force a Flex fare online, and you end up with the whole situation being an unworkable cluster.

I've already switched my travel to AA and BA, and I'm glad I did. eVIP upgrades to F on BA, and F lounge access at LHR are just the icing at this point.

While I would rather fly EK without an FF program than step foot on an AA flight, I'd be interested to know how status works out for you. Someone posted recently that it would take 35 full fare Y RTs on BA between LHR and HKG to reach Gold, while only 4.5 on EK. Though truth be told BA Silver has benefits equivalent to EK Gold.

The point is in most big airlines, we are aware of whats the miles / points we are going to earn by buying tickets at given prices.. many airline websites ( incl LH, OS ) allow u to buy higher class fares etc.. With EK , all this is a mystery unless someone is willing to call their CS and ask about high classes, and still then with the current chaos with saver / flex and difference in miles shown online and that written in tickets its really confusing and leaves a bad taste in the mouth specially considering these things (mainly IT related) should ideally be easily resolved..

Again - not if you get an EF account :)

As far as I'm concerned if at any stage of the booking I see flex, those are the miles I will make sure I get, using whatever tactics necessary. With EK you sort of know what your experience onboard is going to be like - with AA you don't and there's no way I'd take that risk on a transatlantic flight.

[QUOTE=ung1;16287300]Again - not if you get an EF account :)

As far as I'm concerned if at any stage of the booking I see flex, those are the miles I will make sure I get, using whatever tactics necessary. With EK you sort of know what your experience onboard is going to be like - with AA you don't and there's no way I'd take that risk on a transatlantic flight.[/QUOTE]

+1
While I have never flown AA , seeing reviews on this site does not make me sad that I missed flying them :)

You are a truly loyal EK flyer.

I would never be that loyal to EK, or for that matter to any business.

Only because EK's (current) product is years ahead of whatever AA can offer. At double the cost, no I wouldn't fly EK. And if the comparison was with Etihad I'd probably fly them. I meant that for a one off flight - I don't think I'd want to fly 50k a year on a program that gave me no mileage at all, aka SQ.

same for me.. I avoid SQ only because of this.. Else they r great..

This is what I meant as well. I think SQ > EK, but won't fly them because of their KF program.

It's pretty obvious that KF is an afterthought for SQ, and I hope EK does not go the same way.

Actually I have several other reasons for not liking SQ, one of the most annoying being that they only turn on IFE an hour into the flight and switch it off a good 30 minutes before landing. And there's a laundry list of other reasons that I'm sure you've read about all over the place so I won't go OT here anymore.

EK and other airlines take the headset around 30mins before arrival so there goes the "A" part of AVOD ;) ..
IMHO, nowadays there is no airline nor ffp which is worth paying more than 10-15% extra simply because all are doing "enhancements" to their benefit..:rolleyes:

Come on, what sort of frequent flyer/ FT'er are you if you use airline provided try-to-hear phones! I take pleasure in watching people having to give up on a movie half way while I continue to watch IFE till the cleaners come and kick me off the aircraft.

Folks can we please stay on topic...

Miles reflecting online discrepancy resolved ??
 

Hi Folks,

Till yday, I was able to see flex miles online while ticket denoted saver..
Today for the sector I was checking ( CCU - DXB - DME) it shows the saver miles online ..So it seems the discrepancy is rectified for these sectors atleast though I wish it did not happen this way ( but thats another topic)

What about other sectors many of you fly ??

Edit -- I did some checking.. lowest fare on the above sector is approx Eur 815 which is saver.. Toggling with some flight options, the lowest for one leg in flex and one in saver I could get was about Eur 950-1000.. but even the fare priced at Eur 1300 shows one leg as flex and one as saver.. hmmm.. so now the full flex ticket would be really expensive ..

The EUR 974 + tax fare is flex, EUR 860 and EUR 780 are Saver. This is probably happening because one of the two legs eg CCU-DXB is in the Saver fare bucket but is being priced at the higher one, eg DXB-DME which is in the Flex fare bucket. Interestingly even the cheapest (B) fare has no fare restrictions whatsoever, and is in essence a Flex fare.