If ELAL don't fly on Shabbat, then how come...
The LY318 leaving this Saturday night from LHR, is scheduled to leave 5 minutes before Shabbat goes out...?
|
Because given the departure airport involved, the plane *won't* be flying before the end of Shabbat...
|
Originally Posted by HeathrowGuy
(Post 7956845)
Because given the departure airport involved, the plane *won't* be flying before the end of Shabbat...
|
It really doesn't matter if the plane is scheduled to go out 5 minutes before Shabbat ends. That will not discourage anyone from being on the flight.
Even if the plane were scheduled to take off 1 hour after Shabbat is over there would not be a single Shabbat-observant Jew on it. In the most extreme case someone who wanted the earliest possible flight would be staying at a hotel at the airport. The moment that Shabbat ended, he would get a taxi directly to the hotel (let's say this takes 5 minutes). He would have to plan for a minimum of 30 minutes for check in and El Al Security (and we all know that is cutting it very close). Then he would have to go to the Gate (say a 10 minute walk) and, on his way, go through Passport Control (5 minutes) and LHR airport security (another 10 minutes). All of this would take a minimum of 1 hour -- and he would have to hope that boarding is still open. Given all of that, why does it matter when the flight is scheduled to take off (assuming that it doesn't actually begin flying until after Shabbat)? |
The exact time that shabbat goes out can vary (by a few minutes) according to different authorities. Perhaps according to some, shabbat was out at that time?
|
Originally Posted by 1/4MM@20
(Post 7961398)
The exact time that shabbat goes out can vary (by a few minutes) according to different authorities. Perhaps according to some, shabbat was out at that time?
Even if the flight should leave at 5 mins after what an Orthodox Rabbi holds to be the earliest possible time that Shabbos ends, well thats when the flight itself will take off, mean while hours before LY employees would have to be braking the Shabbath in order for that flight to take-off. |
Disrespectful and off-topic posts have been deleted. Please take political et al discussions to OMNI or PM.
Please remember that in this forum, especially, the utmost respect is expected to be offered to and by each poster. Thank you. cblaisd Senior Moderator |
Originally Posted by 1/4MM@20
(Post 7961398)
The exact time that shabbat goes out can vary (by a few minutes) according to different authorities. Perhaps according to some, shabbat was out at that time?
|
Definitive Answer - The latest Shabbat goes out in London is 10.28pm (as per the week in question). This is based on the times by the London Bet Din, the leading mainstream authority. Therefore, technically, a 10.30pm departure does not break the rules. The preparations beforehand are a separate issue but do not fall foul of the 'flying on Shabbat' rules.
Hope that brings some clarity. Fred |
Originally Posted by TLVFred
(Post 8001655)
Definitive Answer - The latest Shabbat goes out in London is 10.28pm (as per the week in question). This is based on the times by the London Bet Din, the leading mainstream authority. Therefore, technically, a 10.30pm departure does not break the rules. The preparations beforehand are a separate issue but do not fall foul of the 'flying on Shabbat' rules.
Hope that brings some clarity. Fred In my opinion it's very understanding that ELAL aren't going to bother messing about with their Heathrow slots, due to once a week, for a few weeks a year, they have to depart by a maximum of 7 minutes later, they would rather just simply depart 7 minutes later |
Originally Posted by ELAL
(Post 12030165)
This year (according to my calender at least), the latest shabbos finishes at 22:37.
In my opinion it's very understanding that ELAL aren't going to bother messing about with their Heathrow slots, due to once a week, for a few weeks a year, they have to depart by a maximum of 7 minutes later, they would rather just simply depart 7 minutes later order, but i know there is a different), The sames goes for LA, NYC, Jersey and other... So if going by the book, There is not fixed time for Shabbos to end on all places the same time. |
Originally Posted by ebzed
(Post 12035271)
It really depends where you are, If you are in Tel-Aviv shabbos will end ealier than in Beer-sheba or Jerusalem (or vice versa, i am familiar with the exact
order, but i know there is a different), The sames goes for LA, NYC, Jersey and other... So if going by the book, There is not fixed time for Shabbos to end on all places the same time. |
Once again - latest shabbat went out this year was 10.26 according to London Beth Din. 10.37 is the extra time for 'tosefet shabbat'. ELAL have fixed 10.30 because a) shabbat never goes out after 10.28 and b) that is the latest schedule time LHR allows.
|
Originally Posted by TLVFred
(Post 12041383)
Once again - latest shabbat went out this year was 10.26 according to London Beth Din. 10.37 is the extra time for 'tosefet shabbat'.
|
Originally Posted by mikebg
(Post 12042336)
Not quite correct. 10:28 also includes 'tosefet shabbat'. There is a disagreement as to the definition of 'nightfall' between different authorities. LBD follows the slightly more lenient approach, whereas the 'Adas' communities follow a slightly stricter approach. The difference varies, but is at most about 10/11 minutes (in the spring and autumn it is about 7 minutes).
It is a known fact that EL AL does fly on Shabbat, be it Sun D'or which is EL AL in disguise, unmarked planes, "training" flights etc. I live near the airport, and EL AL flights can be seen in the air on Shabbat The fact that the plane leaves the runway after Shabbat is over , does not lessen the Chilul Shabbat involved in getting that plane in the air. We unfortunately look the other way, or conveniently disregard the facts, but let us not fool ourselves in saying that it does not fly on Shabbat |
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 2:59 am. |
This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.