As I feared, we've drifted off into OMNI territory.

I don't think anyone questioned your RIGHT to boycott. What I questioned is whether the decision to do so is based on religious belief or personal politics.

Thus far I haven't read anything to suggest it's not personal politics. If so, then it's quite reasonable to ask why one would choose to boycott some Jewish owned businesses and not others, and not non-Jewish businesses.

Even outside of Jerusalem it is mostly illegal to be open on Shabbat. There are many ways that businesses are getting around the laws that are in place. Even with the laws not every Minister of Labour (or is it Interior) sends the Druze shabbes goyim to check the businesses. When Shas had the ministry they did send the squads out but when the ministry changed hands they stopped sending out the squads. However, as McDonalds at the Bilu Junction stated years ago, since they do more business on Shabbat than they do the rest of the week combined it is more than worth the fine they have to pay in order to be open on Shabbat. In Chicago there is a similar situation with foie gras. The city has outlawed it but the fine is such that if you do enough business it makes sense to serve it and still pay the fine.

To bring us back from OMNI and back on topic, there doesn't seem to be a halakhic dictate that says "You should not do business with a Jew that does business on Shabbat" and it seems that it is a personal preference. In the same way that a Christian who is anti-choice may decide not to do business with a company whose CEO is actively pro-choice, a Jew who feels strongly that Jews should not be doing work on Shabbat might choose to boycott a business that does so. My own opinion tells me that the reason for the 'double standard' is related to status quo. Since hotels, rental agencies, and other businesses have always done business on Shabbat there is no boycott of them. Since Dan bus line 90 has run on Shabbat for as long as most people can remember, there is no boycott on the rest of the Dan bus system. The same goes for Arkia and Israir. There was never a precedent for them to not fly on Shabbat (that I know of). However, since for El Al has for as long as we can remember not flown on Shabbat (outside of extenuating circumstances whose validity were debated in other threads) the religious community wants to reinforce what they see as positive behavior and discourage El Al from adopting what they see as a turn for the worse.

The follow up question that JakeBeth is asking is whether the fact that El Al could go out of business and Israel could then lose the single airline which under any and all circumstances will continue to fly in and out of Israel in times of crises. I think that there are a few things in play here, and I hope to be corrected where I am mistaken.

First, I don't think the religious public truthfully considers the scenario of El Al going out of business to be realistic. The precedents of airlines around the world make this seems like an unrealistic outcome. Therefore they don't, IMO, take this into consideration.

Second, there are more than one Israeli airline today. This also can give us a sense that even if El Al goes under there will be other 'lifelines' available. In my opinion this is not realistic with their small fleets and limited capacity but it can give people a sense that El Al isn't something we need to be as worried about.

Lastly, and here I may be very mistaken, I believe that the majority of the travelers who participate in such boycotts are Jews from outside of Israel. As such they don't necessarily see the 'lifeline' as such a crucial issue. Furthermore, they are much more savvy consumers than the Israeli public. As such they look at all the choices they have in airlines and understand that they can effect change by voting with their wallets. Since they don't necessarily have as much concern with the 'lifeline' issue they see this as a very valid way to keep El Al in check. For them to act otherwise would be somewhat irrational. If war breaks out the highest chance is that they'll be abroad, not in Israel. When sitting in Israel the rationality may play the opposite way.

None of what I'm stating above is a criticism. Everyone sees things and bases their acts from their perspective. I could be totally wrong with the way I'm reading the situation and invite people to correct me.

One thing to keep in mind
 

While the airline is run under private hands, the fleet is still owned and paid for by the country (except for new purchases made in the last 2 years - the 777s that will soon be joining). In times of crisis, even if LY goes down, someone will probably still fly those planes under some name.

I just don't get why this is such a big deal for so many people (and wonder that every time the topic comes up). The owners of EL Al have decided their ethics and beliefs are most valuable to them, even at the possible expense of their business. I for one actually admine that kind of faith/devotion. Why is it that others feel they know better and should choose what morals others should live by?

With all due respect Lehava, I think you're ascribing motives that aren't there. I don't believe anything EL AL does or is doing has anything to do with their ethics and beliefs, nor do I think this has anything to do with their faith/devotion.

All true. but as long as there are those (you included maybe?) keep telling everyone else that Israel is a Jewish country, and others cant live there in peace- then its a Jewish country, and El Al should not go agaisnt the word of God. simple. otherwise.. its a double standard and I think you are saying you don't like that.

as that is how most Israelis act: instructing others how to live

No generalization or prejudice in that comment *shaking head*. This thread is obviously a waste of time as far as rational discussion goes, belongs over in omni

really hard not to generalize anymore when all i see is the same thing. as to prejudice .. that excuse died years ago. and yes, this is a waste of time.

Some more info for this topic
 

Ok since I have been away from this topic and have read your replies here is something to ponder there is a male non-religious Jew answering the 1800 number in New York on Shabbos. I tried calling the El AL # on Saturday and it said for people having questions about the flight leaving at 11 PM to press 0. Well it was around 4 their time and it went through.

So if you could have a non-religious Jew answering the calls then why can't you fly? So my point is the non-religious Jews outnumber the religious Jews.

Any ideas?

I'm not sure what you're asking exactly, but as a broader comment, it's interesting to note that not everyone who works for EL AL is actually Jewish. (I write that with no snarkiness. It never occurred to me until I met one or two of them.)

Did you ask the person who answered your call if He was Jewish? or are assuming that LY only hires Jews which is very far from reality, as it has many non-Jews working for them in many a position thoughout the company at least here in the US.

4pm whose time? Are you sure they guy didn't answer in Israel on Motze Shabbat? :D ;)

I look forward to hearing how you determined this person's location and religion.I think that there are plenty of posts above which discuss the issue of the Shabbes Goy which may help to answer your question. There are things which the religious public accepts and those which it doesn't accept. One of the things it accepts is that a Jewish-owned business may employ non-Jews to maintain business on Shabbat. Assuming this gentleman is not Jewish then this would fall into that category. This is the same as a hardware store owned by a Jew may be open on Shabbat and all employees working on Shabbat are non-Jewish and the religious public sees no problem with that. El Al employees exclusively local Jews in Mumbai other than the two employees that are not Jewish so that El Al Cargo can function when Jews are not able to work.You state your point as a fact but it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the statements you've made above. While I am not religious, and often say that the reason I moved to Israel is that I can live a Jewish life without being religious, I don't see how anything you said above leads to your point being valid. But I agree that the majority of Jews in Israel and outside of Israel would classify themselves as not Orthodox. So what? What does this have to do with anything?I have lots of ideas about lots of things but it isn't really clear what kind of ideas you want. Ideas about how to get El Al to fly on Shabbat? It doesn't really bother me very much. It annoys me because I can't fly on Shabbat and earn LY Matmid points but I accept that El Al is a private enterprise and has the right, even the democratic right, to choose its own business practices. The flying public also has a right to make demands on suppliers. The flying public has made such demands and El Al is complying to the extent that it has felt appropriate. Should the non-religious Jewish flying public decide that it cares enough about this issue to boycott the airline then I suspect that El Al may take another look at this issue. But that is highly unlikely to happen. So be it.

Don't get me started. :D I previously worked in a call center in Israel which served the US market. You can't imagine how many issues we had with people answering phone calls from the US during Motzei Hag* in Israel.

"What if a Jew calls?"

"How would you know they are Jewish? Don't ask."

"But what if their name is Jewish?" :rolleyes:

* After the holiday is over as the sun has gone down. No longer holiday in Israel but still holiday in places where the sun hasn't gone down yet.