Returning to Israel - Which FF Programme
 

Hello all

Happy to see there is an LY forum now! Well done!!!

I will be returning to Israel in August after three years in France and am considering my flying options.

I will be travelling all over the world from Israel including at least once a month to France (not Paris though so will need a connection if I arrive in CDG). I will likely combine my France journey with another European city each time. I will be in the US once every couple of months and probably in the far east 3 times a year.

At the moment my favorite airline is BA of which I am a gold member. I am also Star Alliance Gold (through BMI) but will not be able to maintain that from Israel. Traditionally I haven't flown that much with Air France but that has changed recently and with my AF AMEX I should be able to hit Silver.

Generally my travel will be mid-week meaning in most cases I will travel from Sunday until Friday so not sure I will be able to do deeply discounted economy. I don't fly business, but do premium economy.

Looking for the most cost efficient / practical solution that will allow me to maintain status with FF programmes. Flying economy or premium economy means the check-in and lounge benefits make a big difference. This is where BAEC is the best with Silver membership already giving lounge access and business class check in. With my BAEC Gold membership I can use lounge access anytime (which I did last week at LIN en-route to CDG on AF).

So from those of you with a lot of experience of world-wide travel from Israel, I am hoping to receive some good advice.

Thank you

economyman

While LY might be a great option for you, this is not the forum to discuss this. The middle east or even one of the general "buzz" forums will be better place.

I disagree! That is unless you are setting the rules, in which case I still disagree but will have to accept!

I "live" usually in the BAEC forum where things off-topic are not only accepted but are part of the daily discussion. How am I to know on this new forum what is ok and what not. Such a question on BAEC however would not even be considered off-topic which is what I was thinking when I posted here. My question is not very different from how does LY compare to other programmes and how can that be considered off-topic, any more than Dovster's post on why LY is not the best programme!

Frankly I'm very doubtful the forums you suggested would generate an interesting discussion on the topic.

I totally disagree with you.
What forum could possibly be more Suitable for the OP's thread then ELAL's?
Why would a Middle East forum be more suited??? Most of the other airlines there do not even fly in or out of Israel.

Economyman -
Why cant you continue with Star Alliance?
I think you get status miles with each airline within the alliance. Star Alliance is great with Israel, because you have LH, LX, OS all in one program Miles and More - which is great for within Europe. If you fly to the far east you can fly on Thai's codeshare flights with LY and get Miles and more or other Star alliance FF program miles on those flights.
Next I would consider Skyteam - Since they have Af and you can use them to the Far East and obviously for your flights in France. To the US you have flights with DL and CO though you wont get status miles.
... and of course EL AL but try to compare how long it will take you to aquire Gold status on LY and how long it will take with Star Alliance.

Unfortunately, you only get miles on TG codeshare if you are a member of TG Royal Orchid. If you look closely at M&M rules, it requires TG OPERATED flights. Being a TG member is the only way to get miles on TLV-BKK on TG code.

Could one sign up for TG and then fly LY on the code-share and put the miles say into UA? or must the miles from the LY code-share go straight into TG Only?

The LY flights to BKK may not be credited to UA, only to TG even when booked with a TG code, that's what cohenyf tried to explain: With :-: Alliance flights always the metal counts.

As all El Al flights can be credited to SAA Voyager, this may be the preferred option to combine EL Al flights and star alliance flights.

To combine El Al and oneworld, Qantas or AAdvantage may be the choice.
To combine El Al and Skyteam, there's Delta Skymiles or Aeromexico.
But of course, in neither of these combinations El Al miles will count towards status.

I don't know what the 'rules' are, but given what I've read in many other places on FT, my assumption was that this board would ultimately be the best destination for just about ANY travel in/out of Israel.

For those of you who would rather see it tightly constrained to EL AL, I respect your opinion, but I think it would be a shame. Anyone the least bit interested in Israel is going to find their way to this forum.

Take a look at this thread. For the reasons specified there, I think that you would be best off joining AZ's program -- and getting points every time you hop on an AF flight to Paris.

The middle east forum discusses travel in and out of the middle east. This forum discusses El Al Matmid program. IMHO, as awkward as it may sound, general discussions about travel in and out of Israel are off-topic here, but I don't make the rules.

Actually the discussion about whether to make a seperate forum for LY Matmid took this into account and I think the general consensus was that it is expected that this forum will include some discussions which will not be pure LY Matmid related. For instance perhaps take a look at post #16 by Dovster.

I have read your post. Looks like I'll need to do some serious reading of all FF programmes and changes over the last few years. When I used to fly with ELAL regularly, I used to make an economy bonus ticket to Europe in just 4.5 r/ts (each leg being 100 points and a Western European bonus ticket costing 900 points) - this must have all changed now.

I will look into AZ. Question is whether I am better off joining AZ then continuing my AF membership - from your post I see the mileage is better. My concern is with AZ's financial stability!

BTW - your point on most airlines giving the same miles for deeply discounted fares - not sure how long that can hold considering the bad financial position of most airlines doing that.

Anyone know if ELAL would comp me to Gold based on my BAEC and Star Alliance golds? Otherwise, I could just fork out $150 for Kind David membership which from a pratical perspective will give me what I'm looking for.

A business gold Israeli credit card would grant you free access to the Dan lounge at TLV for no cost.

Most airlines do it nowadays and it's not going to get any better. They are trying to drive in more revenue before they grant you "free" awards (used to be free - now they cost many $$$ in taxes) and elite perks. Generally, FF programs are slowly being devaluated throughout the industry.

Delta tried -- for one year -- to give 50% MQMs for deeply discounted tickets and gave it up because of how badly people reacted. Even there, however, you received full mileage -- just not in regards to status.

But the OP will get Dan lounge access with his BA Gold card anyway, regardless of whether he will be flying that day with BA or not.
If he does not keep his Gold card with them but Maintain Silver he can still use the Dan lounge on his BA flights.
Hoever keeping his Gold status with BA living in Israel will be extremely easy; it will require just 3 return trips to the US in WT+.
I would do that if I were you economyman in any case.

As to lounge access, for $150 KD membership is definetly worth it.
Its a far nicer lounge the Dan lounge and you can use it regardless of whether or not you are flying with ElAl on the day.

I suggest Miles&More the program of LH, LX, OS, LO.

All airlines that fly from TLV with good connections and *A.
LH, LX and OS fly (mostly) 2X a day which helps.

When you qualify for M&M you are good for 2 years.
While the program has seriously deteriorated in the last 2 years (now called Mile&Less), it still compares favorably with the other programs.

As for LY comping you, good luck. It hasn't worked for me. From what I hear LY has only deteriorated under privatization as far as customer service.

Let us know what you choose.

Shofar

bump for additional input
 

My cousin, who works for an Intel contractor outside of PDX, will be spending good chunks of time -- ~6 weeks at a pop -- at the Qiryat Gat fab starting end of this year or early next. Which, of course, sets visions of sugar miles a-dancing in my head. ;)

So, not only for my cuz's sake but my own, I'm looking into our options.

He's a Gold with Alaska, as he flies about 36-40 times per year b/w PDX and SJC. Status (and miles) while nice for him haven't been at the forefront of his consciousness, but six transoceanics a year certainly will begin to matter here shortly.

For me, visits from PDX to TLV will likely be in the 2x/year category. As I'll easily recapture*A Gold via UA this year (my preferred) regardless, I can afford to divert some of my loyalty to LY and/or its partners.

What really appeals to me about LY is the connection timing between my preferred routing on UA into Europe (PDX-IAD-MUC) and LY's flight to MUC. Alternatively, once I'm maxed on whatever status on UA I want, I could conceivably route myself via LAX on LY's metal, which is probably what my cousin will do.

Thots?

I would strongly recommend looking at LH Miles and More. The FRA-PDX-FRA flights on LH metal have excellent connections with FRA-TLV-FRA - 1.5 hours in each direction, just right. LH treats Israel as Europe if you register with an Israeli address, so your cousin can pop off to Europe for only 15K in Y and 25 K in C (book 2 weeks before). Availablity to Europe on award is excellent - 2flights per day on LH, OS, LX, 3 on TK, and one on LO, plus AC direct to Canada. Service in Israel is great IMO. Plus at least twice a year there are promotions which give bonus miles on the TLV-FRA/ZRH sectors - there is one on now.

Also, connecting to/from LY in MUC is a pain, as they use a separate terminal (F) to everyone else. This is basically a hangar close to the airport hotel. No transfers inside security, fairly long walk with luggage, VERY tight security (worst I have seen for LY), always bus gate. You need to allow yourself <> 3 hours. Not recommended...

If you sign up with DL, you can fly codeshare on LY and those two r/ts alone will give you Silver Medallion status (even in Coach).

You will also have the following alternative choices for getting SkyMiles:

ATL-TLV non-stop (Delta)
JFK-TLV non-stop (Delta)
EWR-TLV non-stop (CO)
Several different airports in the US connecting through CDG on AF.
Several different airports in the UD connecting through FCO or MXP on AZ.
JFK-PRG-TLV on Czech Air.

You could also fly Delta into any European airport it goes to and continue your flight into TLV on El Al (but you would not get MQMs for the Europe-TLV segment -- only SkyMiles).

Delta will also allow you to stop in one city in Europe going and a different one coming back (or coming back non-stop).

With any of these choices you would earn free flights much more quickly than you would being an LY Matmid member.

This is not true any longer. The cooperation between Gold Mastercard Business and the Dan Lounge ended a few months ago. So did Amex (Both from Bank Hapoalim). Gold Visa Cal never had accesss and I am not sure about Gold Leumi Visa Card
If anyone has updated info I'd like to know as I have most of these cards and miss the free entrance to the Dan Lounge

essxjay - this is mostly just for curiosity's sake, but do you happen to know where your cousin is going to live while he's working at the Kiryat Gat fab?

I have family friends who live there, and I was fortunate enough to get a tour of the fab a couple of years ago. It's a big deal for Kiryat Gat to have the facility there, but my recollection is that a huge chunk of the employees commute. I was just curious as to whether a person like your cousin had been encouraged to live nearby/elsewhere, etc.

LH has excellent connecting time in FRA between PDX and TLV. Hands down it is the best choice, especially if you are after UA miles.

This sounds like the best option for my cousin. He doesn't give a rip about the FRA issue that I have with LH (see below). Whether his temp address is legitimate under M&M's rules is an excellent tidbit to check out; if so, then :cool: Thank you very much for that.

Good to know! Long walk with luggage is no biggie for me, but connection time could be. Depending on the time of the year, the connection could be as little as 2 hours or closer to 3.

Also, very good to know. Given that transatlantic upgrades are far easier to come by as a 1P on UA than a silver on DL, I'm more likely stick with *A to Europe and just credit ex-TLV miles to my SkyMiles account, which are great for intra-Asia C awards.

Dunno yet. He won't actually be a resident, just coming in for several weeks at a time. Whatever his firm arranges is what it'll be.

<rant> I'm not trying to rain on the advice, *but* ... FRA has been no picnic IMLE. Is twice just a fluke when FRA ATC decides to force LH469's A340 load to disgorge at some godforsaken part of the airfield? (It happened a third time when I was on a UA B744 from IAD.) If LH468/9 is billed as premium service, then explain to me how bussing an a/c of that size at LH's "flagship" hub is considered premium service. Misconnecting at FRA just ain't no fun. </rant>

Thanks all for the input.

I know a couple of people who flew this route and never missed the connection.

The fact that I missed a connection is #3 on the list. The fact of the tarmac welcome mat is #1 (with the fact that it's FRA ::shudder:: being a close second).

Hi Jarino,

Can you please explain: "As all El Al flights can be credited to SAA Voyager, this may be the preferred option to combine EL Al flights and star alliance flights"

I am facing the same issues and would like to work out Star Allaince milage/status with El Al flights ?

Thanks,

JJ

AFKL Anyone?
 

One option that wasn't mentioned (yet) was AF/KL which the FO seems to have an account with. AF has followed AZ and LH and moved Israel to Europe (figuratively), so it only takes 30,000 miles to Europe and 50,000 to the US RT.

I hate going on the 05:00 LH flight and avoid it as much as possible - AF has more normal times 08:15 and I think that ST has the most departures from TLV of any alliance. And, all ST flights count for status (and not as mentioned previously). Platinum is attained for 70,000 miles.

The AF 320s are no bargain though - equally uncomfortable in Y and J. And KL doesn't have any movies for their 5 hour flight which is really cruel and unusual IMHO (unless you're in J and then you get a digiplayer). I hate the actual flights to/from TLV although the food on AF out of CDG tends to be pretty good.

IMHO, if you tend to take economy, AFKL is the way to go - each award mile is x2 while status is x1. For business, LH is better - as a FTL or Senator (35,000 *S / 100,000 *G) you get x2.25 for both award and status miles (ST gives x2.5 award but only x1.5 status).

Anyhow, whatever you choose, welcome back home!