LY getting Airbus 330
 

According to an article I read this morning, EL AL is planning to purchase 8 A 330 to replace its 767's.
I knew they were having meetings, I just thought they were trying to tease Boeing to get a better deal on the 787's they were suppose to order.
I am a bit upset, instead of getting modern next generation planes, they are getting A330's. :(
Atleat they should have gone for A350's.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/a...&itemNo=706217

I would not trust Zohar Blumenkrantz's articles as a sole info source. This guy is just channeling info without much knowledge. Some of his articles are simply not true.

OTOH, LY needs those planes immediately (or within a couple of years) so the A350s (or 787s) are out of the question. The A330 is a much better alternative to the 767s (especially the flop of the -400). LY's 767s are aging quite fast and do not meet the standards of service the airline has on the rest of the long-haul fleet.

When I can get official news releases from LY for this week about ready for on orders new Airbus A330 for first time. it should be get thoese plane immediately to replacing aging the older B767-200 aircraft from the fleet. These doesn't see happen for LY on the B767-200 is getting too old for that. They could need replacing for better aircraft for long-haul from TLV. What about exactly those passengers will able watch the PTV on newest Airbus A330. Can you tell which setrch is that for -200 or -300?

Can LY made nonstop from TLV-MIA/ORD on new A330? Does LY will able improved for better range for more average loads will getting better than 767.

There is no news on if its -200 or -300. I would guess these are for -200, as they better fit to replace 767-200 and 767-300. They might have 2 -300 inthe deal as well, but if the price is true its hard to believe.

The -200 can efinetly do TLV - MIA/ORD nonstop it has the range.

The weird thing is that no other news agency has reported the story. Maybe because its Easter and Passover the are having trouble getting confirmation of the deal.

I'll believe it when I see A330's in LY Livery landing at TLV.

Here is an article by the same author 6 days earlier discussing LY getting A330s AND A350s.

OK I'm going to chime in...

I wont fly in an Airbus A330 not out of some misplaced European anger; rather I feel its an inferior aircraft that I don't enjoy traveling in. Also there have to be some low-time 763 or 764s out there (or a short lease from ILFC) that LY could operate (even without the LY livery) till the 787 program is off the ground. Perhaps LY could do what some private aircraft manufacturers do, say sign for X number of 787s and we'll give you 767s for a fee (or free depending on how desperate Boeing is) in the interim. Surely with the market as it is, and their long relationship, Boeing would appreciate such an offer.

I feel the 330 is much noisier than a 767 or 777 (even a 340 for that matter). The plane is of older design and doesn’t have the latest "gadgets" - the 757 is already gone, 737 and 747 are not too far behind. On that note, the 787 will be much more fuel efficient and I believe have greater range (let's keep LY in the black!) Also, a fear of mine, although irrational, is that if, G-d forbid, the E-U imposed sanctions on Israel there would be no spare parts... It's not out of the realm of possibility.

Why go with a Boeing? Well the 787 is going to be more fuel efficient - extremely important for the financial interests of the new LY. The prestige of being one of the first airlines to fly a 787 (LY was a launch customer for the 762ER) and there is something about an all-Boeing fleet that I like. I feel a sense of pride stepping on and off a 773, 772LR, or 747. It just has a “big fish feel” to it. The 767 less so, its old technology—as is the 330. I have noticed, possibly by coincidence, that I just prefer airlines such as BA, CO, etc with all (or predominantly) Boeing fleets. I LOVE Cathay pacific, but a month ago I did the JFK-HKG nonstop in the 340-600 and it was an uncomfortable journey. The 777’s LY flies are quieter and have a more “modern” look to them. Even though there may well be nothing better than Cathay First (save for LY F!) I might do the Continental direct flight from EWR because the a/c is less stressful. El Al has leased a/c before, why cant they do this for a few short years... Good things come to those who wait!

Also, like it or not, but Boeing and Airbus are largely subsidized extensions of the US, EU and their respective governments. I support 100% and always will, however with Israel’s aid always being a point of strong criticism around the world, it would give the US a perfect reason to lessen further aid packages. It’s sending the message “hey! We’re now rich enough to buy from whoever we want… and we want your competitor’s aircraft” Now, before I get flamed from that comment, let’s all acknowledge that every nation has a defacto airline or flag carrier. While the US and Israel don’t own their airlines anymore (yes, I know LY is private) they still wield enormous influence. For example, after 9/11 bailout the airlines got; it would be political suicide for UAL to go shopping for A380s. No more lenient bankruptcy provisions, no more aid packages, no more help. I think there are people in the Knesset who would be infuriated to allow LY to snub the US (which it is) by buying Airbus.

Look, I’m on Israel’s side here… But for those Israelis on this board, I have to tell how Americans are seeing this. And those on Capitol Hill who don’t support Israel but just vote for aid out of a consensus would have a perfect to dissent from the views of their peers and make a big mess out of this. I know for a fact that Senator Arlen Specter, an American Jew who has lived the American success story, always has to defend Israeli actions and Aid to his peers. It’s becoming more of an issue lately and let’s not give some blowhard liberals reason to drop support of the only democracy in the Middle East!

Thoughts?

The average Israeli buys cars and most electronic appliances mainly from the Far East and Europe. This is not because we love Europe and hate America - it's just because we buy what's fitting us best (functionality and pricing), regardless of where it's made. Hey, we even buy clothes, furniture, and fruits and vegetables made in the Palestinian Authority - we all know how much they support us.

El Al is not Israeli government anymore. It can do whatever business decision it wants to do. As much as we all appreciate what the USA is doing to support Israel and what European countries don't do, politics should not play a part in El Al's decisions, just as they don't play a part in any other private company in Israel.

OK I think I might have misconstrued what I was trying to explain.
Obviously nobody would expect Israel to buy solely from the US. After all, how many Americans do anymore :cool: . Nevertheless, El Al is buying a product in which there are only two companies making what it needs. Yes, El Al is privatized. Yes El Al is "independent" from the Israeli government. I do recognize that. But let's examine this. While the US government would gladly let one or two airlines disappear from existence (Southwest, Jet blue, USAir even). It not going to let one of its "flag" carriers - UA and AA fold overnight (or at least not without extensive leniency and toleration of their mismanagement). They are too important to American interests. They are both members if the two largest alliances, they fly to the most international destinations, they serve too much domestic travel. That being said, does a member of the DOT or FAA sit on the airlines Board of Directors? No. Absolutely not. But how tolerant was the US of UA in bankruptcy? How many did USAir get before anyone really cared about trying to turn it around? Airlines are terribly mismanaged here, but we won't let them fold without a fight; they serve "vital national interests." Would the British government let Virgin fold? You bet. BA? No way in hell. Would the Italians let Alitalia fold (even though they should!)? Nope.

The USA and North America has one major commercial aircraft manufacturer (unless you want to fly around in CRJ's!). Boeing. The Europeans have Airbus. They are always at each others throats. I don't think that PIA picked the 772LR only because its a superior aircraft. Just as there is such political posturing in the EU. At the end of the day, its not just the quality of the A/C it's the political maneuvering that also makes the sale.

This brings to Israel. Will Israel allow Israir to fold? Well, they might give it some small support, but its a private company. Will they allow El Al to fold? I don't see that happening. It serves too many routes important for trade and the Israeli government. Nobody in the states has really heard of Israir. Do you think people in HKG have? It's essentially an extension of the government in this respect. As much as you and I would like it to be private (which would make it more competitive) at the end of the day, just as in so many other nations, the governments pull the strings.

Now I think most Americans support Israel. But how will this look? Israel gets a ton of US aid and loans. I think its pretty balsy to have El Al buy Airbus planes. I don't think UA would try this one (if they ever got new a/c). I do think that blockheaded senators on the Hill will think that Israel has total control offer El Al and will be very insulted by this move. Am I? Not really. But I don't think many of them care that LY is private. It's all politics.

Please explain??
 

The joke in all this is saying the A330 is an "outdated" plane when in fact its one of the most technologically advanced aircrft in the skies today. I would also have to strongly disagree that the A330/340 are noiser than a boring, sorry Boeing, -----The 767 is prehistoric in comaprison to an Airbus A330!

Boeing is increasingly adpoting the build techniques and principals of Airbus..conceding Airbus are on the right track. If the world wide sales stats between the both don't convince you, nothing will I dare say.

I do however grant 11/10 to you LY flyers for loyalty to a product..it's quite admirable albeit debatable at times.

:)

LY is a flag carrier, can you point to documentation that AA or UA are flag carriers?

AA and UA cannot be allowed to go out of business. Time and time again, airlines such as Southwest, Jetblue, etc. which only serve domestic markets have complained to the fact that they must work for their money while the big airlines, none of which can consistently manage to make a dime are bailed out by the federal government. If we running a true capitalist society, UAL, AA and US would have been allowed to disapear a long time ago. Instead we see these carriers as essential, so we bail them out. BA is privatized but even if they made no money, they would be bailed out. How often has Branson complained about BA favoritism? Or Neeleman complaining about virtual subsidies for UA, which hemorrhages money, and even in F fails to provide consistent service. For some reason these carriers are seen as to vital to a nation to fail. In this way, yes, these carriers are defacto "flag carriers."

As to the A330 not being outdated. Both the A330-300 and 763ER were launched the same year. They serve similar markets. Yes, the 767 is at a disadvantage to the A330 (as the 767 program was launched much earlier). However look at the specs for the A330 and B787-8. 20% less fuel, can fly farther (787-8 8000nm, A333/A332 5500nm/6400nm) and employs technology not used in the A330 series. So in that respect, yes the A330 is inferior to its competitors. Also, the 787-3 (@ 3000nm) and 787-9 (@ 9000nm) will share the same type rating. Something I believe coming from Boeing--rather than Airbus' history of broken promises. Need I mention the disappointing A345 SQ wants pawned off, the A346 which CX and Virgin have had some serious "teething" problems, or the grossly underestimated weight of the A380, or even the misleading information regarding having the same type rating for the A319/320 and to some extent A330/340 series? I have nothing against them, they just make an inferior, overhyped, product.

They *REALLY* need to get rid of the cattle-car 767s.... why not replace them with 777s at least the -ERs?

well LY is getting 2 777 next years.