LY Scrapping 'First Class' ...AGAIN!!
 

Wonder if anyone can shed some light on a rumour / Travel Agent informing me that ELAL are scrapping 'First Class' after installation of new seats?

Cheers.

I will believe it when I see it. EL AL has "threatened" to scrap First Class for years.

BTW - The new seats will be great, they will install seats manufactured by Sicma. It the same seat as in SA and IB Business Class.

Here are a few pics of the new seat in AY colors.

http://www01.finnair.com/faye/photob...mages=inflight

Having tried first class on a number of occasions, I can tell you that it is not simply a question of the seat, but the entire 'experience'. I travel a great deal, but the only time I ever walked off a 12 hour flight without even feeling that I had travelled at all was when I went first. EL AL have recently invested quite a bit in their first class product (particularly in the meals and meal service) and I think that they feel that it gives them a worthwhile competitive advantage on the long haul routes. At this point there is also a general feeling that the wheel has turned again in favour of first class, and other airlines are increasing its capacity rather than reducing it. British Airways are reintroducing it on the LHR-TLV route as of May.

Because of increased capacity demands and lower restrictions from the govt of Israel, airlines are bringing back the bigger planes to TLV - not necessarily for their F class. BA are reintroducing the 777 on the LHR - TLV route for Y, C and cargo capacity and F comes along with it as a "perk". LH are flying one plane with F daily (again as a "perk" on the 747-400 - the A346 does not have F) and LY is the only airline to offer F on the TLV - N. America routes while Israir, Continental, Delta and Air Canada are doing quite well without it.

I'm sure that LY makes a good deal of dosh off it's first class product. as it is a "destination airlines" (i.e. basically to & from Israel) & only really operates in 1 market, having First for long haul & real business for mid-haul puts at a slight cut above the rest. I'm sure that profit margin for the First product coupled with the demand (all-be-it limited) far outway what LY might make by using the same space for business/platinum of economy/coach.

Now that they have ordered the new Sicma fat beds, there is an argument in EL AL that they do not need F anymore.
I dont agree. There are many pax who fly First not only for the more comfortable seat. They do it because they can and they are expected to.

expected to???

Yeah, CEOs and other high management positions , high ranking ministers, movie stars, attorneys/accountants who are senior partners in large firms, members of rich Israeli/jewish families etc. The list goes on.

Still, expected to? :D

I can't see a CEO of Fortune 500 comapny seeing flying on upscale C class as an insult of a downgrade. "These people" have no problem flying BF on Continental to Israel although it's not First class.

... and those "high ranking ministers" would do us all a favor and save some of our tax payers money for they travel :)

Back in the day, when he was US amdbassador to Israel ,Martin Indyk flew business on TWA's JFK-TLV 2-class service. I can't see these people not flying LY because the class is entitled Business and not First. LY has a very good product in Platinum, IMO, and this won't be an issue. Not sure what other perks they have besides the airport transfer and escorts through security but if these people are that important they'll be getting that anyway.

Was goint to answer but apirchik and yosithezet more or less took the words out of my mouth

I never said they would not fly Platinum and that they would see it as an insult to fly "Platinum".
My point is, that some in LY see First Class as obsoloete if the seats and service n Platinum are improved to "almost" First Class. I dont exactly agree with them. All I am saying is that most ppl who fly First do it because they can. Its not that they wont fly Platinum, but rather, even if there was a First Class that was very similiar to Platinum they would still go with First Class - Just because it is offered.

There is also the question of how many people actually pay for F rather then being upgraded from Business/Platinum.
With Elal's upgrade policy being based of availability in the higher cabin rather then lack of availability in the lower cabin (like in most airlines) I am sure the numbers of people being upgraded is huge.
I personally know someone who travels frequently in F but very rarely is he booked in F to start with.

Well, it depends on a number of factors. Firstly, on the NYC routes you will find by checking an availability tool (like expert flyer) that F is often full. Likewise HKG. EL AL's First has much less capacity than other airlines too: 6 seats on a 777 and 8 on a 744 (British Airways has 14 on both, Singapore has 12/16 or 18 depending on the configuration). So it's not that surprising that it is often full. Yes, there are upgrades, but then other airlines also upgrade their most frequent flyers quite often as well. I have seen numerous trip reports of people who were alone in a British Airways or Singapore First cabin. So I don't think it is all that simple. Having travelled to the USA in First on EL AL, I can tell you that there is a lot more to it than the seat. Yes, Platinum is good, but First is incomparably better.

Is it worth the extra? That's about as easy to answer as 'is business class worth the extra?'. For those who can afford it, or have others to pay for them, I suppose it is, otherwise it wouldn't exist.

Yes I guess you are right it does depend on the route.
On the European flights that usually use planes with F on them (mainly to LHR) I think the number of people traveling in F on an UG is much higher, as I really think the number of people willing to pay for F on such a relatively short flight is very limited.
In fact I have myself sat in F cabin on the route while being used for Business rather then F more then once.
As to F being more then just a better seat, it must be otherwise there really isn't much justification for it.

By the way on BA and many airlines, there are upgrades for premium travelers but they would almost always be operational upgrades when they need your seat in the class you are booked in.
ElAl upgrade you as a bonus when they have the space in the better class and usually has nothing to do with them needing your seat.

Can you expound? I'm quite curious as I can't imagine what the difference is and have yet to experience it myself.

It is stuff like this which makes me want to fly LY anytime I can. :)

Well, actually, I would say it is pretty difficult to quantify! I have travelled a number of times in platinum to the USA and travel very regularly to London in business class (all with EL AL except for the occasional Virgin flight). I have only done it once in First (another one coming in 3 weeks). The difference is best described by how we felt after the flight. Apart from the very pleasant and relaxing flight and food, it was just as if we had not travelled at all. We arrived so refreshed that it was quite unbelievable.

Now, one thing I am pretty sure about with EL AL is that their upgrade policy is not just geared towards rewarding frequent flyers prepared to pay for a slightly more expensive ticket. It is also treated as a form of advertising. Once upgraded a few times, the likelihood that a passenger will pay for the more expensive cabin, either with money, or with points, is far, far, higher than it would have been before. I can tell you that from experience!

I couldn't agree more.

I'll second that!......and if they put the new BusinessFirst style seats in...I’ll...third, fourth and fifth that! :D