El Al Pilots

Old Nov 27, 18, 5:09 am
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El Al Pilots

https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-p...isk-1001262156

Article in Globes indicates that new agreement with El Al pilots lowers the number of pilots needed per flight. From 4 to 3 for transatlantic flights and from 3 to 2 for European flights (lets say flights less than 6 hours). While the article says its the number of pilots in the cockpit, i really doubt that El Al has had 4 pilots in the cockpit together for flights to the US. Instead they have a relief pilot and copilot who take over for some hours of the flight.
So first of all, if El Al has had 3 pilots for intra-European flights, that is extremely wasteful, and I doubt any other airline staffs flights of less than 6 hours with a relief pilot. Also for longer flights I wonder what are the standards that other airlines use for when they need a relief pilot and copilot for the flight. For example what do Delta and United do for their TLV flights from NYC?
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Old Nov 27, 18, 7:23 am
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Originally Posted by nombody View Post
https://en.globes.co.il/en/article-p...isk-1001262156

Article in Globes indicates that new agreement with El Al pilots lowers the number of pilots needed per flight. From 4 to 3 for transatlantic flights and from 3 to 2 for European flights (lets say flights less than 6 hours). While the article says its the number of pilots in the cockpit, i really doubt that El Al has had 4 pilots in the cockpit together for flights to the US. Instead they have a relief pilot and copilot who take over for some hours of the flight.
So first of all, if El Al has had 3 pilots for intra-European flights, that is extremely wasteful, and I doubt any other airline staffs flights of less than 6 hours with a relief pilot. Also for longer flights I wonder what are the standards that other airlines use for when they need a relief pilot and copilot for the flight. For example what do Delta and United do for their TLV flights from NYC?
as for UA EWR-TLV is OK as is but theres an extra pilot as they need an extra pilot for the TLV-EWR flight which is longer time wise and not distance wise. So its either 2 & 3 or 3 & 4 I think its 3 & 4 otherwise its 2 pilots for a 10+ hr flight to TLV. Ive sat next to the extra pilot going to TLV several times and thats how I know theres always 1 dead heading to TLV
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Old Nov 27, 18, 7:23 am
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3 on a european flight is extremely wasteful, there's 2 pilots on transcons in north america.

That article comes down on the ~600 NIS/hour salary the pilots earn, but that's not out of line (at all) with other airlines. I think what was out of line is the cushy job conditions, excess stays in hotels, paid dead-heading, etc. taking up a J/F seat on a flight when they have crew rest bunks.
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Old Nov 27, 18, 7:55 am
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Originally Posted by entropy View Post
3 on a european flight is extremely wasteful, there's 2 pilots on transcons in north america.

That article comes down on the ~600 NIS/hour salary the pilots earn, but that's not out of line (at all) with other airlines. I think what was out of line is the cushy job conditions, excess stays in hotels, paid dead-heading, etc. taking up a J/F seat on a flight when they have crew rest bunks.
With UA the dead heading pilot to TLC always got a Biz seat,. The bunks are good for sleeping but what do they do when not sleeping?
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Old Nov 27, 18, 9:10 am
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Originally Posted by nombody View Post
Also for longer flights I wonder what are the standards that other airlines use for when they need a relief pilot and copilot for the flight. For example what do Delta and United do for their TLV flights from NYC?
US airlines follow the Federal Aviation Regulations which require one relief pilot for flights between 8 and 12 hours long and two relief pilots for flights over 12 hours long. No relief pilots are required for flights shorter than 8 hours.

Last edited by TWA884; Dec 3, 18 at 9:14 am Reason: Typo
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Old Nov 27, 18, 9:19 am
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So if going by FAA regs, El Al should have one relief pilot for flights to NYC/BOS/MIA/YYZ, and 2 for LAX/SFO. And one for JNB/HKG. And that's it.
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Old Nov 27, 18, 10:58 am
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Originally Posted by nombody View Post
So if going by FAA regs, El Al should have one relief pilot for flights to NYC/BOS/MIA/YYZ, and 2 for LAX/SFO. And one for JNB/HKG. And that's it.
Almost TLV-NY is blocked at 12+ hrs so that will require a cockpit of 4 not 3, NY-TLV will need only 3 as I mentioned above YYZ may be an exception as BOS. Not sure if LY as to adhere to FAA regs since its a non-US carrier
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Old Dec 3, 18, 6:07 am
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Originally Posted by craz View Post
With UA the dead heading pilot to TLC always got a Biz seat,. The bunks are good for sleeping but what do they do when not sleeping?
It depends on the a/c type, but there are 4 seats in the cockpit in many long haul a/c. But only the front 2 are very comfortable
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