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772 soon to be LY’s biggest a/c: surprising

772 soon to be LY’s biggest a/c: surprising

Old Apr 23, 18, 10:39 pm
  #1  
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772 soon to be LY’s biggest a/c: surprising

After decades operating the 747 (-200 and -400), I am surprised that LY’s biggest model will only be a 772.
The 744 was operated heavily on routes like JFK, LHR, BKK, and CDG during peak season.
Isn’t there room for a bigger a/c: wouldn’t the 77W make sense? Or may I dare to mention the 77X?
Wouldn’t the downgauge lead to increased fares? I guess it is not easy to get to have new slots to increase frequencies...
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Old Apr 24, 18, 1:30 am
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This has been known ever since they announced they're retiring the 744. They never ordered the 748i nor did they order larger 777s, and obviously haven't touched Airbus. Time will tell if they ever move in that direction. Whether it makes sense or not is far removed from the decision-making process at LY.
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Old Apr 24, 18, 2:24 am
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It's a global process rather than only EL AL. Airlines now aim towards smaller jets and point-to-point routes over the busy routes through main hubs. This is also the reason for Boeing (and I guess Airbus soon as well) to develop the new medium-size jets of 797 that will have capacity similar to the 757 and range close to the 787 and will be used for relatively low demand long-haul routes, such as, say, TLV-MCO, TLV,AUS etc. And this also explains the low demands for the 380 and 748.
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Old Apr 24, 18, 2:28 am
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Originally Posted by Hamatmidim View Post
It's a global process rather than only EL AL. Airlines now aim towards smaller jets and point-to-point routes over the busy routes through main hubs. This is also the reason for Boeing (and I guess Airbus soon as well) to develop the new medium-size jets of 797 that will have capacity similar to the 757 and range close to the 787 and will be used for relatively low demand long-haul routes, such as, say, TLV-MCO, TLV,AUS etc. And this also explains the low demands for the 380 and 748.
Problem is LY doesn't operate point-to-point service. They have just the hub at TLV with high capacity routes to places like JFK and LHR (mostly due to slot restrictions)
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Old Apr 24, 18, 2:49 am
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Originally Posted by Hamatmidim View Post
It's a global process rather than only EL AL. Airlines now aim towards smaller jets and point-to-point routes over the busy routes through main hubs.
Then looking forward to HFA-LGA route
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Old Apr 24, 18, 2:55 am
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Originally Posted by joshwex90 View Post
Problem is LY doesn't operate point-to-point service. They have just the hub at TLV with high capacity routes to places like JFK and LHR (mostly due to slot restrictions)
Agree, but doesn't it exactly define point-to-point routes (no central hub with connections)? The JFK, LHR. CDG services are probably the only routes that require, daily, high capacity jets and it's might be more efficient to get more slots in those airports (like LY25/26 in EWR).
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Old Apr 24, 18, 2:59 am
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Originally Posted by flyerby View Post

Then looking forward to HFA-LGA route
Keep waiting, TLV - MOON will be established long before
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Old Apr 24, 18, 7:09 am
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its disppointing for sure. the 748 would look great in LY livery. I do not understand however, dropping the lower capacity 787s on TLV-NYC/LON. rather, they should deploy them on the longer, thinner markets where they could benefit more from the fuel savings. E.g. TLV-LAX, or lie-flat competition (TLV-YYZ) that are running with ancient , ratty 763s.
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Old Apr 24, 18, 11:47 am
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Originally Posted by joshwex90 View Post
Problem is LY doesn't operate point-to-point service. They have just the hub at TLV with high capacity routes to places like JFK and LHR (mostly due to slot restrictions)
Exactly
El Al can’t be compared to other airlines.

Many airlines may have withdrawn 747s but they still opted for larger a/c than the 772 (77W/77X)
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Old Apr 24, 18, 12:07 pm
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in a way, LY makes sense (lol) to standardize on fewer types, given they are such a small airline.

dump the 777s and replace everything w/b with 787 (8/9/10), its a lot easier to crew with 2 types (737/787) than (737/767/747/777/787)

of course, I think the biggest priority is to get rid of the dumpiest, rattiest, aircraft (e.g. the 767s)
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Old Apr 24, 18, 2:14 pm
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Originally Posted by joshwex90 View Post
Problem is LY doesn't operate point-to-point service. They have just the hub at TLV with high capacity routes to places like JFK and LHR (mostly due to slot restrictions)
I disagree. El Al is basically the only point-to-point full service airline in the world. How many passengers fly LY with a connection, e.g. LHR-TLV-BKK? A "hub-and-spoke" airline has lots of transfer passengers. A typical example of a hub-to-spoke is EK, with massive amounts of passengers changing planes in DXB every day. LY does sell a few tickets with connections to other carriers, such as LY TLV-BKK with a connection to TG BKK-SIN, but there's practically speaking no connections in their "hub" at all.

And that's mainly the reason why they need the flexibility of smaller airplanes, so that they can shift capacity around according to where there's a strong demand at the moment. All airlines that fly large airplanes such as 380, 748 or 77W have a true hub with lots of connecting passengers.
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Old Apr 24, 18, 2:21 pm
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Originally Posted by entropy View Post
in a way, LY makes sense (lol) to standardize on fewer types, given they are such a small airline.

dump the 777s and replace everything w/b with 787 (8/9/10), its a lot easier to crew with 2 types (737/787) than (737/767/747/777/787)

of course, I think the biggest priority is to get rid of the dumpiest, rattiest, aircraft (e.g. the 767s)
Indeed.

It boggles the mind that YYZ, which is served by AC's Dreamliner has gotten the short straw and will continue to be a 767 service. Nuts.
I guess the yields & load factors are healthy, so if it ain't broke...
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Old Apr 25, 18, 12:24 am
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Originally Posted by entropy View Post
in a way, LY makes sense (lol) to standardize on fewer types, given they are such a small airline.

dump the 777s and replace everything w/b with 787 (8/9/10), its a lot easier to crew with 2 types (737/787) than (737/767/747/777/787)

of course, I think the biggest priority is to get rid of the dumpiest, rattiest, aircraft (e.g. the 767s)
Agreed - either better utilize (748i to JFK, LHR, CDG; 77W to EWR and others) or standardize to only 787 and 737. I'm so tired of the 767 to JNB. No room in overhead bins, no IFE, no outlet (I don't care for IFE if I have an outlet and can bring my own - not a problem when they sub 767 to Europe, but big problem on flights > 5 hours)
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Old Apr 25, 18, 2:08 am
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Originally Posted by RedChili View Post
I disagree. El Al is basically the only point-to-point full service airline in the world. How many passengers fly LY with a connection, e.g. LHR-TLV-BKK? A "hub-and-spoke" airline has lots of transfer passengers. A typical example of a hub-to-spoke is EK, with massive amounts of passengers changing planes in DXB every day. LY does sell a few tickets with connections to other carriers, such as LY TLV-BKK with a connection to TG BKK-SIN, but there's practically speaking no connections in their "hub" at all.

And that's mainly the reason why they need the flexibility of smaller airplanes, so that they can shift capacity around according to where there's a strong demand at the moment. All airlines that fly large airplanes such as 380, 748 or 77W have a true hub with lots of connecting passengers.
Exactly. IMO EL AL is a PTP carrier by any definition - TLV is not seriously a hub by any standard, the company doesn't rely on connecting passengers (nor it offers any real convenient ones), and doesn't have many partnerships with different airlines to increase connection alternatives.
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Old Apr 25, 18, 2:13 am
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Originally Posted by entropy View Post
its disppointing for sure. the 748 would look great in LY livery. .
Its also disappointing because nothing is compared to the 747's upper deck comfort.
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