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OT: Ramon airport is being built in the Negev

OT: Ramon airport is being built in the Negev

Old Feb 3, 2019, 6:43 am
  #106  
 
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Originally Posted by BATLV
Indeed there is a difference in what 30 minutes do to a 4 hours door to door trip and to an 8 hours trip door to door, given not only the total time but also the mere existence of the driving option, which does not exist for those who fly into ETM from Europe.

The drive time from the terminal to a typically located hotel ( Queen of Sheba) is 25 minutes at no congestion. Google/Waze it. Your assumption on lack of congestion is not based on anything and is, I believe, wrong, certainly on weekends. So 35-45 minutes drive is something that will be typical on weekends. Add the extra time of taxiing, bussing and terminal walking and there you go 30 to (even more than!) 45 minutes difference in time on arrival compared to ETH.

Re inconvenience in SDV/TLV1 I mean the mere time spent ( and you have to spend it there for security etc.) in these no-frills facilities.
I'm not sure what's your 8 hours trip is, unless you're talking about flying from Europe to TLV and driving to Eilat, or in the near future flying to ETM and driving to Tel Aviv? Why doesn't this option exist? I did it several times myself.
Actually for such PAX the connecting time that is offered in TLV is usually quite ridiculous (3-4hrs) so then you either have to book separate tickets and risk it, or rent a car and drive.

And yes if there is congestion at the entrance to Eilat travel time will be longer, but so as driving time as most seems prefer to drive through road 90.

BTW since you brought up taxi time, considering the wind direction about 99% of the year airplanes have to circle around and land on runway 03, meaning they also have to taxi it all the way back, so taxi time in ETM might actually be shorter, also just to nitpick the flight time will probably be slightly shorter

Re inconvenience I don't find spending time at the airport less convenient than spending it in a car, I'd probably say they are of equal convenience, but that's my opinion.
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Old Feb 3, 2019, 9:58 am
  #107  
 
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Originally Posted by BATLV
The drive time from the terminal to a typically located hotel ( Queen of Sheba) is 25 minutes at no congestion. Google/Waze it.
I Googled the distance from Isrotel Riviera Club (the hotel I stayed in during my last visit to Eilat), to ETH or ETM. To ETH it's 7 minutes, while to ETM it's 22 minutes, so it's 15 minutes difference.

In the other direction, Google claims that it's 5 minutes versus 40 minutes, but that's because Google seems to think that you need to drive via the Timna Park to get to Eilat.
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Old Feb 3, 2019, 11:37 pm
  #108  
 
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Originally Posted by RedChili
More good news about Ramon Airport, The web site now says "Opening: Early 2019 for domestic flights followed by international flights." Let's just hope that it will open before BER.
Based on:
http://www.iaa.gov.il/en-US/airports...ne-flight.aspx
Israir flight 6H 447 will be taking off from Sde Dov today at 17:45 and landing at Ramon.
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Old Feb 3, 2019, 11:46 pm
  #109  
 
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Originally Posted by hnussbacher
Based on:
http://www.iaa.gov.il/en-US/airports...ne-flight.aspx
Israir flight 6H 447 will be taking off from Sde Dov today at 17:45 and landing at Ramon.
And Israir 6H 448 will be landing at Sde Dov from Ramon at 20:15 today.
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Old Feb 4, 2019, 12:48 am
  #110  
 
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Originally Posted by Ditto
I'm not sure what's your 8 hours trip is, unless you're talking about flying from Europe to TLV and driving to Eilat, or in the near future flying to ETM and driving to Tel Aviv? Why doesn't this option exist? I did it several times myself.
Actually for such PAX the connecting time that is offered in TLV is usually quite ridiculous (3-4hrs) so then you either have to book separate tickets and risk it, or rent a car and drive.

And yes if there is congestion at the entrance to Eilat travel time will be longer, but so as driving time as most seems prefer to drive through road 90.

BTW since you brought up taxi time, considering the wind direction about 99% of the year airplanes have to circle around and land on runway 03, meaning they also have to taxi it all the way back, so taxi time in ETM might actually be shorter, also just to nitpick the flight time will probably be slightly shorter

Re inconvenience I don't find spending time at the airport less convenient than spending it in a car, I'd probably say they are of equal convenience, but that's my opinion.
8 hours is a typical door to door time between leaving your home in, say, central Amsterdam, and entering your hotel room in Eilat. That includes just over 4 hours of actual flight time.

Regarding landing on 03 - ETH has the same wind rose as ETM. So the same process, still just a slightly longer taxi time. In any case, the difference in air time TLV-ETM/ETH is negligible as is taxi time. The bulk difference is in bussing time and walking airside to landside in the larger terminal.

An average Israeli with two kids would rather have those occupied with some screen time at the back sit, rather than chase around in a no-frills airport terminal.
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Old Feb 4, 2019, 12:57 am
  #111  
 
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Originally Posted by RedChili
I Googled the distance from Isrotel Riviera Club (the hotel I stayed in during my last visit to Eilat), to ETH or ETM. To ETH it's 7 minutes, while to ETM it's 22 minutes, so it's 15 minutes difference.

In the other direction, Google claims that it's 5 minutes versus 40 minutes, but that's because Google seems to think that you need to drive via the Timna Park to get to Eilat.
Don't use Google for this. Use Waze, it is much more accurate in Israel. It is 25 minutes to central Eilat ( maybe 23-24 minutes to the hotels in the northeast.) And that is before even taking into account congestion, the checkpoint on route 90, the wait for taxies - since there will be more demand and not so much more fleet ( and taxies are crucial because buses in Israel are non-reliable and inexistent on weekends.

No matter how you look at it is 30-45 minutes more which makes the change unpalatable to an average Israeli. I am not saying they won't fly - but marginally less so, and Eilat will become more congested and even less nice place ( not that it is a decent resort today).
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Old Feb 4, 2019, 1:03 am
  #112  
 
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Originally Posted by BATLV
Regarding landing on 03 - ETH has the same wind rose as ETM. So the same process, still just a slightly longer taxi time. In any case, the difference in air time TLV-ETM/ETH is negligible as is taxi time. The bulk difference is in bussing time and walking airside to landside in the larger terminal.

An average Israeli with two kids would rather have those occupied with some screen time at the back sit, rather than chase around in a no-frills airport terminal.
Are you absolutely certain that all planes will use buses to/from the terminal?

I think you overestimate the walking time for airside to landside. Sure, the building is bigger than ETH, but we're only talking about adding maybe 100 meters. That's about a minute of walking.

An average Israeli would prefer to take the car, yes, you're right about that. But that's also the case today. (My guess is that even Egged can compete with Israir and Arkia in the number of passengers carried every day.)
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Old Feb 4, 2019, 1:16 am
  #113  
 
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Originally Posted by RedChili
Are you absolutely certain that all planes will use buses to/from the terminal?

I think you overestimate the walking time for airside to landside. Sure, the building is bigger than ETH, but we're only talking about adding maybe 100 meters. That's about a minute of walking.

An average Israeli would prefer to take the car, yes, you're right about that. But that's also the case today. (My guess is that even Egged can compete with Israir and Arkia in the number of passengers carried every day.)
The bussing is my assumption. Given the size of the airfield, the amount of larger planes, etc. safety becomes a bigger concern. And since they did not find the budget for air bridges which is the quick and the safe way - I definitely expect buses.
You are right about the walk time added - just a minute or 2, but still, I count it towards the total.

And you are probably right about Egged too , which brings me back to what a huge waste of public money ETM is.
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Old Feb 4, 2019, 1:42 am
  #114  
 
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Originally Posted by BATLV
8 hours is a typical door to door time between leaving your home in, say, central Amsterdam, and entering your hotel room in Eilat. That includes just over 4 hours of actual flight time.
Well if so then your 8 hours must be flying to VDA, in which case ETM will only make things better, given that Intl flights never landed at ETH.
Originally Posted by BATLV
Regarding landing on 03 - ETH has the same wind rose as ETM. So the same process, still just a slightly longer taxi time. In any case, the difference in air time TLV-ETM/ETH is negligible as is taxi time. The bulk difference is in bussing time and walking airside to landside in the larger terminal.
Yes the winds will be the same, but the ETM terminal seems to be located in the middle of the runway which I suspect will make the taxi time slightly shorter
Originally Posted by BATLV
An average Israeli with two kids would rather have those occupied with some screen time at the back sit, rather than chase around in a no-frills airport terminal.
But how does that change ETH vs. ETM? The average Israeli with 2 kids will drive irrespective, and understandably so as flights to ETH are not cheap when you multiply by 4, and considering the amount of company cars in Israel.

Originally Posted by BATLV
The bussing is my assumption. Given the size of the airfield, the amount of larger planes, etc. safety becomes a bigger concern. And since they did not find the budget for air bridges which is the quick and the safe way - I definitely expect buses.
You are right about the walk time added - just a minute or 2, but still, I count it towards the total.
If they designed it correctly, busses won't be not needed, it's not difficult to have planes parked next to the terminal and within a walking distance to the gates, see e.g. HLA, and if they can do it in Africa
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Old Feb 4, 2019, 1:45 am
  #115  
 
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Originally Posted by BATLV
Don't use Google for this. Use Waze, it is much more accurate in Israel. It is 25 minutes to central Eilat ( maybe 23-24 minutes to the hotels in the northeast.) And that is before even taking into account congestion, the checkpoint on route 90, the wait for taxies - since there will be more demand and not so much more fleet ( and taxies are crucial because buses in Israel are non-reliable and inexistent on weekends.
Actually busses in Eilat run over the weekends, but it's not like you need much transport if you stay in the north beach or city hotels, you can practically walk to anywhere you might need, and even more so once ETH is out of the way.
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Old Feb 4, 2019, 2:11 am
  #116  
 
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Originally Posted by BATLV
Don't use Google for this. Use Waze, it is much more accurate in Israel. It is 25 minutes to central Eilat ( maybe 23-24 minutes to the hotels in the northeast.) And that is before even taking into account congestion, the checkpoint on route 90, the wait for taxies - since there will be more demand and not so much more fleet ( and taxies are crucial because buses in Israel are non-reliable and inexistent on weekends.

No matter how you look at it is 30-45 minutes more which makes the change unpalatable to an average Israeli. I am not saying they won't fly - but marginally less so, and Eilat will become more congested and even less nice place ( not that it is a decent resort today).
Using Waze, I get 24 minutes to the King Solomon and 22 minutes from the hotel. Which is kind of strange, since the drive from the hotel is longer than the drive to the hotel because of the one-way streets around the hotel area. It should have been the other way around. And it's 3 minutes from ETH, and 6 minutes to ETH. Which means that Waze gives an added time of 21 minutes to the hotel, and 16 minutes from the hotel.

Me personally, I've never experienced any congestion on route 90 into Eilat, and I've never been stopped at the checkpoint. And that's with rental cars.

On my last visit to Eilat, I took the shuttle from Ovda to the city. According to Waze, it should have been 46 minutes, but it was actually just above 30 minutes. My guess is that a shuttle driver will make the trip from ETM to Eilat in around 15 minutes.
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Old Feb 4, 2019, 3:09 am
  #117  
 
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Originally Posted by Ditto
Well if so then your 8 hours must be flying to VDA, in which case ETM will only make things better, given that Intl flights never landed at ETH.

Yes the winds will be the same, but the ETM terminal seems to be located in the middle of the runway which I suspect will make the taxi time slightly shorter

But how does that change ETH vs. ETM? The average Israeli with 2 kids will drive irrespective, and understandably so as flights to ETH are not cheap when you multiply by 4, and considering the amount of company cars in Israel.


If they designed it correctly, busses won't be not needed, it's not difficult to have planes parked next to the terminal and within a walking distance to the gates, see e.g. HLA, and if they can do it in Africa
But I am primarily talking about domestic travel. To the person whose trip is 8 hours along ( on average) the 20 minutes, difference vs VDA does matters less. Keep in these are either Jewish tourists or low costs tourists, given the quality of Eilat's resorts and that Eilat has little to offer on top of its (limited in length) beaches.

It does not matter much that the terminal is mid-runway, as larger planes still will be exiting the runway towards its end. On top of that, the runway is considerably longer than ETH.

And it is nice of you to bring African airports as an example. This is exactly what ETM is - an African airport. Waste of public funds and poor infrastructure.
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Old Feb 4, 2019, 3:10 am
  #118  
 
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Originally Posted by hnussbacher
And Israir 6H 448 will be landing at Sde Dov from Ramon at 20:15 today.
And no flights tomorrow from sde dov to Ramon. Neither Arkia nor Israir. As if the 3 flights today are a test run...one Arkia flight and two Israir flights.
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Old Feb 4, 2019, 3:15 am
  #119  
 
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Originally Posted by Ditto
Actually busses in Eilat run over the weekends, but it's not like you need much transport if you stay in the north beach or city hotels, you can practically walk to anywhere you might need, and even more so once ETH is out of the way.
No, they don't unless start of service at 19:00 is public transport to you. To me, it is not. If you stay in a hotel on the north beach and laze on the beach indeed you don't need it. But keep in mind that the few attractions Eilat has to offer ( the dolphin reef, aquarium) are not in a walking distance. Bottom line - you need a car ( parking issues, congestion) or a taxi ( little availability, overpriced, poor service, congestion).
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Old Feb 4, 2019, 3:20 am
  #120  
 
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Originally Posted by RedChili
Using Waze, I get 24 minutes to the King Solomon and 22 minutes from the hotel. Which is kind of strange, since the drive from the hotel is longer than the drive to the hotel because of the one-way streets around the hotel area. It should have been the other way around. And it's 3 minutes from ETH, and 6 minutes to ETH. Which means that Waze gives an added time of 21 minutes to the hotel, and 16 minutes from the hotel.

Me personally, I've never experienced any congestion on route 90 into Eilat, and I've never been stopped at the checkpoint. And that's with rental cars.

On my last visit to Eilat, I took the shuttle from Ovda to the city. According to Waze, it should have been 46 minutes, but it was actually just above 30 minutes. My guess is that a shuttle driver will make the trip from ETM to Eilat in around 15 minutes.
So, again just the drive itself will be on 20 minutes longer ( no congestion) and 30 minutes longer with congestion, contributing to the total extra 30-45 minutes time from landing to the hotel room.

Try to arrive in Eilat on a Thursday afternoon, or get out on Sat evening and you will see heavy congestion on route 90 at the checkpoint.
And your shuttle driver was highly likely speeding. Read some stats on lethal accidents on route 90. One of the reasons I never take a bus or a shuttle there.
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