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Spanish police at Schengen exit controls refuse EU ID card after consulting EasyJet

Spanish police at Schengen exit controls refuse EU ID card after consulting EasyJet

Old Jun 27, 22, 10:07 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by NFH View Post
True. In our case, it started with the Spanish police failing to honour my girlfriend's right to use her EU national identity card to exit the Schengen area, and he then sought and relied upon the opinion of an EasyJet worker about her right to use the same travel document to enter the UK, only because of the unusual proximity of the Schengen exit controls to the gate.

But this conversation has since moved on to airlines' frequent failure to accept valid travel documents.
I'm not sure what you want to achieve here...

Originally Posted by NFH View Post
my girlfriend told them that she has EU Settled Status in the United Kingdom.
But did she reliably prove settled status? If not, they would have been well within their rights to refuse her travel.

Originally Posted by NFH View Post
With budget airlines so trigger-happy to deny boarding to passengers on UK-bound flights with valid travel documents, this creates the opportunity make a profit. Buy a cheap UK-bound flight for as little as Ä5. Then try to board the flight with a valid travel document that the airline reportedly refuses, for example an EU identity card with the UK's EU Settled Status. Then claim denied-boarding compensation of Ä250 for <1500km flights or Ä400 for >1500km flights.
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Nope, an airline can require documents over and above what immigration does (with advance notice). Then there's no denied boarding compensation.

The likely long-term outcome is EasyJet starts to get Home Office fines for passengers arriving with ID cards and no settled status, and they respond with a passports-only policy.
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Old Jun 27, 22, 10:36 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by cauchy View Post
But did she reliably prove settled status? If not, they would have been well within their rights to refuse her travel.
No, neither EasyJet nor the Spanish police asked her to prove her EU Settled Status, even though she could have have generated a share code in around one minute. By refusing to accept her valid identity card, EasyJet ground crew were failing to observe EasyJet's own "Travel documents and information" page, which states:
Following the UKís exit from the EU, from 1st October 2021 most EU, EEA, Swiss national Identity Cards will no longer be valid for travel to the United Kingdom. You will be required to use a passport.

This will not apply to those EU, EEA and Swiss nationals whose rights are protected by the Withdrawal Agreement, including those eligible for European Union Settlement Scheme (EUSS) status, frontier workers and joining EUSS family members. These individuals will continue to be able to use a national Identity Card for travel until at least 31 December 2025 and thereafter if the cards are compliant with International Civil Aviation Organisation standards.
Originally Posted by cauchy View Post
Nope, an airline can require documents over and above what immigration does (with advance notice). Then there's no denied boarding compensation.
Not true. See section 5 of the European Commission's FAQ on this topic, which states "If you have presented yourself in time for check-in with a valid flight reservation, and you are denied boarding by the airline, although you have the correct travel documents, you are entitled to: compensation".
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Old Jun 27, 22, 11:01 am
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by NFH View Post
No, neither EasyJet nor the Spanish police asked her to prove her EU Settled Status, even though she could have have generated a share code in around one minute. By refusing to accept her valid identity card, EasyJet ground crew were failing to observe EasyJet's own "Travel documents and information" page, which states:


Not true. See section 5 of the European Commission's FAQ on this topic, which states "If you have presented yourself in time for check-in with a valid flight reservation, and you are denied boarding by the airline, although you have the correct travel documents, you are entitled to: compensation".
"correct" here means "in line with the airline's conditions of carriage that you have agreed to when booking your ticket". It's not unreasonable for the airline to set a documentation policy that ensures passengers can be checked quickly.

You can, of course, travel with both the passport and ID card, and present the ID at the UK border.
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Old Jun 27, 22, 11:46 am
  #34  
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Originally Posted by cauchy View Post
"correct" here means "in line with the airline's conditions of carriage that you have agreed to when booking your ticket". It's not unreasonable for the airline to set a documentation policy that ensures passengers can be checked quickly.
No, "correct" in this document means that it is acceptable at the destination country's immigration controls.

Even if you disagree with this, which I have no doubt you will, then EasyJet's conditions of carriage don't define which travel documents are acceptable. Paragraph 11.9 states "Travel document requirements vary by route, your nationality and status. Document validity periods apply, which may be longer than your intended stay. Requirements may also differ for children and those travelling with them. Please see our Travel Documents page for more details". I have already quoted the Travel Documents page above, which you ignored because it proves you wrong.

Originally Posted by cauchy View Post
You can, of course, travel with both the passport and ID card, and present the ID at the UK border.
There are many scenarios where one will not be able to travel with one's passport, the most common one being that the passport is with an embassy for a visa application.
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Old Jun 28, 22, 5:52 am
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by cauchy View Post
You can, of course, travel with both the passport and ID card, and present the ID at the UK border.
Originally Posted by NFH View Post
There are many scenarios where one will not be able to travel with one's passport, the most common one being that the passport is with an embassy for a visa application.
I was suggesting a more balanced way of "enforcing your rights". I think most of the travelling public would agree it is unfair to hassle airline workers under immense pressure for something like this.
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Old Jun 28, 22, 5:58 am
  #36  
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Originally Posted by cauchy View Post
I was suggesting a more balanced way of "enforcing your rights". I think most of the travelling public would agree it is unfair to hassle airline workers under immense pressure for something like this.
Nobody is hassling airline workers. It's the opposite - airline ground crew are hassling passengers who present valid travel documents at the boarding gate. Look at the example news articles that I posted above where this is most definitely happening.
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Old Jun 29, 22, 10:28 am
  #37  
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Paragraph 2.8 of the European Commission's Practical Handbook for Border Guards states that "Persons enjoying the right of free movement under Union law are authorised to cross the border of a Schengen State on the basis of the following documents, as a general rule: Ė EU, EEA, CH citizens: identity card or passport".

Therefore my girlfriend had the right to use her Lithuanian national identity card to exit the Schengen area at LEI, irrespective of her EU Settled Status in the UK. The Spanish police were wrong both to consider entry requirements of the destination country and to consult EasyJet ground crew, whose response conflicted with EasyJet's own policies quoted above.
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Old Jun 29, 22, 12:16 pm
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Originally Posted by NFH View Post

My girlfriend and I will continue to travel with her Lithuanian national identity card and my Irish passport card, and we will continue to test that immigration controls are carried out correctly. We will each hold each other's passport booklets, so that if border guards ask us whether we have our passport, we can truthfully deny it but with the option to produce it as a last resort. This has the added benefit that if one of us loses our possessions, then we will still have a set of valid travel documents for both of us.
Do you think the queue which you, undoubtedly, create each time is also an added benefit?
By all means fight for your rights, but why make it complicated when thereís the easy (no pun intended) solution of just showing your passport?
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Old Jun 29, 22, 12:23 pm
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I do empathise with OP (having on occasion been confronted with demands that were not in line with immigration rules).

That said I find it pointless in actively seeking out confrontation or educating staff/police in such situations especially if I have the 'extra' documents they demand.

It's quite stressful to argue about such things and the way the system is designed is that the passenger always stands to lose more if he loses the argument and gain little even if he prevails. I would rather humour an official with his demands (if possible) rather than have a draining debate over heated tempers on what is right or wrong. In the end I have neither the time, resources nor the inclination to pursue such wrongful denials (such as the OPs experience). I have stopped expecting these officials to be educated or clever so it worries me not if they sometimes go overboard in asking for additional documents/proofs (that I am carrying or is available easily).
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Old Jun 29, 22, 1:13 pm
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It would really make me laugh if one of you is stopped, the other let through, they are found with the others passport and then get arrested under the 2010 Act ( or its foreign equivalent). Yes they would have the reasonable excuse defence....but boy what a long delay in explaining and convincing the authorities of of it.
Pedantic border official meets pedantic traveller.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 12:32 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by patvd View Post
Do you think the queue which you, undoubtedly, create each time is also an added benefit?
No, passengers with valid travel documents do not create queues. It is errant airline staff and border guards who create queues. At most airports, airline staff and border guards do their jobs properly by accepting valid travel documents without question; LEI is one of the exceptions.

Originally Posted by Kumar2013 View Post
That said I find it pointless in actively seeking out confrontation or educating staff/police in such situations especially if I have the 'extra' documents they demand.
Nobody is actively seeking confrontation except perhaps a minority of airline ground crew who like to appear to be clever and powerful but in reality lack sufficient training. At most airports, airline staff and border guards do their jobs properly by accepting valid travel documents without question; LEI is one of the exceptions.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 8:15 am
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Originally Posted by NFH View Post
Nobody is actively seeking confrontation except perhaps a minority of airline ground crew who like to appear to be clever and powerful but in reality lack sufficient training. At most airports, airline staff and border guards do their jobs properly by accepting valid travel documents without question; LEI is one of the exceptions.
I'd suggest that refusing to show a passport just to argue a point *is* actively seeking confrontation. I fully agree that your girlfriend should be allowed to travel using just her ID card, but just take the easy route when it is easily available to you. If she didn't have a passport then it's a different situation, but you're just making life difficult for yourself and you (as a passenger) are unlikely to change their mind at the gate on an issue like this.
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Old Jun 30, 22, 9:19 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by NFH View Post
We will each hold each other's passport booklets, so that if border guards ask us whether we have our passport, we can truthfully deny it but with the option to produce it as a last resort.
Before anyone emulates the behaviour encouraged here (wilfully devising strategies to be able to mislead immigration officers into thinking one does not have a passport in their possession whilst they know they have it at hand albeit in the other passengerís bag), I wonder if any of our resident lawyers would confirm whether this may breach the laws many countries have on obstructing immigration control. For instance, in the uk, such offences are defined in 26.1 of the immigration act 1971.

maybe Iím mistaken and overly compliant but in my cursory reading, the behaviour the op encourages would risk being illegal under such rules in many jurisdictions.
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Last edited by orbitmic; Jun 30, 22 at 9:27 am
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Old Jul 2, 22, 6:43 pm
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Originally Posted by orbitmic View Post
Before anyone emulates the behaviour encouraged here (wilfully devising strategies to be able to mislead immigration officers into thinking one does not have a passport in their possession whilst they know they have it at hand albeit in the other passengerís bag), I wonder if any of our resident lawyers would confirm whether this may breach the laws many countries have on obstructing immigration control. For instance, in the uk, such offences are defined in 26.1 of the immigration act 1971.
Not UK qualified but a bare reading of the text suggests the only possible breach is making a false representation [that there is no passport]. S. 26(1)(c). This is however a UK legislation so I doubt it would apply in Spain.
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Old Jul 3, 22, 1:24 pm
  #45  
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Originally Posted by wilkobrfc View Post
I'd suggest that refusing to show a passport just to argue a point *is* actively seeking confrontation.
It’s no more confrontational and illegal than passport control/law enforcement insisting on documentation that isn’t required to process an admissible person as required under the code — it’s less.

A right to be admitted and/or to exit the Schengen zone is distinct from a regulated allowance to be able to fly into and/or out of a country by common carrier means.
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