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Originally Posted by BOH
(Post 20629026)
I do wonder about the ongoing viability of Flybe. I have yet to take any flight out of SOU on one that is more than 50% full, except a recent one to AMS on the early Monday morning flight.
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As I understand it, from the time BA "took" a 15% shareholding in FlyBe in 2007 they have never paid a dividend and the asset value of the shares has pretty much gone to the floor as well. It appears that the 15% shareholding was basically a paper transaction associated with the transfer of aircraft (principally the Embraer 145s) from BA to FlyBe at the time.
BA have a shareholding in FlyBe but leave them to operate as a separate brand, whereas the likes of Air France and Lufthansa with comparable secondary carriers prefwer to operate them under their mainstream brand. The difference in approach is somewhat fine. There is no route which is competitive between BA and FlyBe. One of the differences of approach is often quoted to be the higher costs of BA. This is not so much what may be getting directly paid to employees, or paid for fuel or aircraft, which can be reasonably comparable, but a smokescreen for the substantial additional indirect cost recharges that come from BA for their vast head office and establishment costs, and in particular a share of the pension funding for employees who never worked for the secondary carrier. We have of course been here before with new, "low-cost", BA-controlled carriers, particularly Go from Stansted, which were financially successful but found to be cannibalising BA mainstream business and so were sold off to Easyjet, an unwise corporate move as it allowed Easy to step up a gear at that time. |
Originally Posted by WHBM
(Post 20632779)
BA have a shareholding in FlyBe but leave them to operate as a separate brand, whereas the likes of Air France and Lufthansa with comparable secondary carriers prefwer to operate them under their mainstream brand.
There is no route which is competitive between BA and FlyBe. But the point is that flybe are playing a very different game. We have of course been here before with new, "low-cost", BA-controlled carriers, particularly Go from Stansted, which were financially successful but found to be cannibalising BA mainstream business and so were sold off to Easyjet, an unwise corporate move as it allowed Easy to step up a gear at that time. With some aspects of the Iberia Express concept (not the cost base, more the dual codes for flights sold with/without benefits), plus some aspects of the Vueling model (such as connecting flights on shorthaul, not just point to point) IAG are almost sitting on the perfect shorthaul strategy. You want your shorthaul to feed and connect with your longhaul, so it needs to support connections of passengers and bags anyway. Even if an LCC matches it to respond, they don't have the longhaul network. |
Originally Posted by David-A
(Post 20631588)
I consider that a ridiculous suggestion. To me the statement caries no such categorical universal pronouncement.
It is an assessment by the person who made it, that what they describe is the case in their experience, and at their time horizons, routes, etc. 1) "easyJet tickets are hardly cheap anymore" AND 2) "In my experience, on the routes I fly, Easyjet tickets have hardly been cheap in the last 2 years" I would regard 2) as a subjective statement, which describes what the subject perceives on the basis of their own experience, time horizon, routes, etc... 1), OTOH, strikes me as purporting to express an objective, general truth about Easyjet prices. But I guess this is probably because of my poor command of the English language as a non-native speaker that I mistake 1) as an objective rather than subjective statement. Something puzzles me, though: how does one go about expressing generic, objective statements if apparently objective, general statements should be read as merely expressions of subjective experiences. They certainly did not teach us that at the English language classes that I followed. :) |
Originally Posted by NickB
(Post 20634618)
Well, I would have thought that there is a difference between:
1) "easyJet tickets are hardly cheap anymore" AND 2) "In my experience, on the routes I fly, Easyjet tickets have hardly been cheap in the last 2 years" I would regard 2) as a subjective statement, which describes what the subject perceives on the basis of their own experience, time horizon, routes, etc... 1), OTOH, strikes me as purporting to express an objective, general truth about Easyjet prices. But I guess this is probably because of my poor command of the English language as a non-native speaker that I mistake 1) as an objective rather than subjective statement. Something puzzles me, though: how does one go about expressing generic, objective statements if apparently objective, general statements should be read as merely expressions of subjective experiences. They certainly did not teach us that at the English language classes that I followed. :) |
Apologies for not chipping in here more often (I really must lay off those Tchaikovsky song accompaniments).
On the limited number of easyJet routes I am likely to book, namely Switzerland-UK and some UK domestics I have found the prices much higher than they used to be. Occasionally I have looked at some other routes, but by no means examined the whole network. But my general observation is that prices are at a higher level than they were before. I am talking about base prices quoted on the website. Don't forget that all those annoying extras push the final price up considerably, and those extras tend to be included with carriers like BA and SWISS. In the earlier days of easyJet, all these extras were included in the price too. Most of the time, unless there is a shocking difference, I am more likely to book with LX, BA or KL, and enjoy miles, lounge access, etc. Because, when I've calculated all those extras on easyJet, the price more often than not comes out as being fairly close to that of the main carriers... in my experience. My booking horizon is 1-2 weeks, and there is no question that the best prices are had at easyJet by booking much further in advance. I have just booked, 6 days out, DUS-BSL/ZRH-DUS on LH for EUR185, which I thought was a pretty reasonable price. |
what?
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I stand by what I said earlier, easyJet tickets are hardly cheap anymore. Every time I have had a look during my booking window, 1 to 2 weeks out, fares are not outstandingly cheap, on a variety of routes. So I just book with a legacy carrier, and pick up the miles and benefits.
So from my perspective, they are not really competing so much with BA anymore but, instead, seem to complement them. Could BA have had a hand in this subtle evolution of the scene? |
I agree with the OP. I had to book a domestic flight from London to Belfast at about 5 days out - leaving Sunday lunchtime and returning Monday evening. I only had hand luggage which I though would count in the favour of the LCCs. However, the total costs were:
Easyjet (LGW): £111 (plus £12 for "good" seats each way which would have brought it to £135) BA (LHR): £130 Flybe (LGW): £130 (times didn't suit very well in any case) AerLingus (LHR/LGW): £189 For me this is a no-brainer if you have status and/or have hold luggage. I'm not saying that Easyjet are the most expensive as clearly if you want to get from A to B with no luggage/catering/seat choice they are the cheapest, but they certainly aren't significantly cheaper if you want to book quite close to departure time. I assume that is why BA have the Value Calculator on BA.com (which I see now includes Ryanair). |
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