LapLap

I'm not sure I've made the point I was trying to make clear.

Within this thread some mused as to whether everybody who was in a chair at an airport needed to be in a chair.

It's very different travelling within Europe completing point to point travel than it is when your ticket is part of a multi-segment longhaul trip. And the reality is that most travellers with a disability are not amongst the most affluent segment of society. Low Cost Carriers are a fact of life.

I highlighted an incident that occurred with Easy Jet, generally considered amongst Europe's better LCCs. Alicante is a very popular destination for Britons, particularly retired and elderly visitors who are more likely to require assistance. I didn't post another problem I had with Ryanair where, despite my telling the GAs that I could walk but found stairs a problem (and refused a chair which I did NOT want to use) found myself facing a great deal of them on arrival at LTN. The Ground Staff on duty there (who hadn't been warned) did what they could for me but it was extremely painful. I made my own decision always to take a chair should I believe I might need it based on this, the incident I witnessed not so long afterwards merely reinforced this.

But back to my point - there must be many people who are in the same position I was (or which the lady I saw was), who have some difficulties, or might have some difficulties depending on delays or where there aircraft ends up being parked or if the jetways cannot be attached to the craft who take a chair.

Frankfurt, Milan, London Heathrow, London Gatwick, AMS all have excellent facilities to help those who require assistance.
London Luton, Charleroi, San Javier, Venice Treviso... not quite the same. THESE are the airports I use when travelling within Europe.
On Longhaul flights I use LHR, MXP, FRA, CPH etc... it truly is another world.

divingdancer

Hi all.

Well, I found this forum quite by accident. As you can see by my name I am a diver and a (former) dancer but I'm also disabled.

This has been a very interesting thread. I'll recount my experiences the twice I have flown as a disabled passenger.

First trip two years ago.

Manchester to Cyprus (larnaca) This was part of a package holiday. I booked the disabled assistance with MCR airport. They were fantastic. I picked up a wheelchair at check in and their staff guided me through the airport security, passport control and airside. I went onto the plane with the other disabled passengers - all nice and easy. Only downside was that the 'disabled' seats were right at the front of the plane, by the loos! Having had knee surgery I can't sit in one position for long and was unfortunately seated at the front right against the bulkhead. under the tv too so it was hard to see it.

at Larnaca they off loaded us last but helped us through luggage claim etc.

On the return leg, we had to get the rep to find me and my daughter a chair. They were not in good condition and we were effectively abandoned. We were preloaded onto the flight, same seats. By the time I got back to MCR I had overdosed on pain relief and was sat in tears. The wheelchair assistant who collected us from the flight was brilliant. She sped us through the gates and baggage claim. Poor woman - not sure what she thought about pushing a mental wreck who was in pain so much she was in tears.


Second Trip

Manchester to Hurghada.

I just love them at MCR. I actually a LONG queue to check in and I can't stand for more than a minute or so.

I have never experienced such rude co-passengers who whinged cos I was in a wheelchair. God, I got some funny looks.

We were whizzed through all the security checks and passport etc. Had a nice meal having joined the rest of our party (about 20 hairy a***d divers) . We were pre-boarded and guess which seats we got!!!! I made sure I sat on the aisle this time to stretch my bad leg out.

Arriving at Hurghada, myself and another lady had to wait an age for the van lift to arrive. There was one wheelchair and one small ambulance type chair. The other passenger let me have the chair, we had a chat about invisible disabilities as she has ME / CFS just like my daughter. I had to fight to keep the chair and one of our party got me to the bus and retuned the chair.

After a week on a boat, diving, (they kit me up and push me in so I dont do any lifvting or exertion.) it was time to go home. OH HELL ON EARTH

Arrived Hurghada airport. It was like a queue for Harrod's sale. You pick the wheelchair up at checkin. Unfortunately, the check in is PAST security, which had an hour long queue! I kid you not.

As I mentioned I cannot stand. We were travelling privately this time. However, I grabbed one of the Thomas Cook reps (not the airline ) and she said she would ask for some help for me. Poor woman, she had one hell of a job finding help as the wheelchairs were all in use.

I had to sit in the cafe area watchign the queue, they smoke in public areas in Egypt. I'm also Asthmatic. Has anyone ever experience the effects of too much ventolin. I was past it by this point.

Eventually a young man arrived, no chair, he couldnt find one but I did manage to hold onto him and walk slowly through the airport security to check in. We then found a chair. The young man got us through TWO lots of security, and passport control.

Duty free shopping is hell in a wheelchair. You can't browse very well. We eventually got onto the flight along with 10 other wheelchair users.

Same seats!!!!

Thank goodness they know what they are doing at MCR I have to say that they are fantastic there,

When will the arilines stop putting disabled people in cramped seats?????

Having read the comments on here I agree and would ~NEVER fly Easy jet or Ryanair if I needed assistnce. I just dont trust them.

LapLap

A very warm welcome to you, divingdancer!

There are few accounts in this forum that detail the experiences of disabled travellers to 'non-hub' airports in Europe. I'm very glad to see your comments (and delighted to learn that MCR have been coming up trumps for you ^ )

As an aside, you probably know already that not all airlines have the same policy of putting disabled passengers in bulkhead seats. Alitalia doesn't seem to (just in case you're thinking of diving in Italy)

oldpenny16

Divingdancer needs to meet up with JDiver for info on travel, flying and diving!

Katja

Welcome to FlyerTalk and the Disability Travel Forum, divingdancer. Another theme you'll see as you browse the threads is self-sufficiency. If the airline falls down on the job and can't provide a wheelchair, is that going to ruin your trip and/or make it impossible for you to travel? Then you should seriously consider investing in your own mobility equipment for travel rather than relying on the airlines/airports. Yes, there are laws, and yes, the airlines say they'll provide a certain level of service, but it's never guaranteed, as you've discovered.

We look forward to your contributions to the forum.

divingdancer

Hi

I am considering taking my own wheelchair to eygpt later this year. Trouble is we go from flight to liveaboard boat, so would have to make arrangements for the boat owner to stow the chair on shore whilst we are out at sea diving.

Plus, if so many airports (well smaller ones) have a problem then it will probably be less hassle to take my own.

I've just finally been diagnosed with Fibromyalgia (have arthritis and spondylosis too) so don't look disabled and my daughter has ME/CFS and hates using a wheelchair even when I remind her that if she walks the long distance to the plane she is wiped out for days.

I'm glad I found the forum though as it is very informative.

Heidelberg Barbie

I need to redress this topic. My man and I flew via JetBlue PBI to BOS. JetBlue was fantastic at PBI with a helpful staff and plentiful chairs available at check-in. Our tip of $5 was accepted with a smile. However at BOS we presented the same $5 tip and received a sour look and a nod to upgrade to $10. Our return trip was the same with the attendant nearly demanding a $10 tip at BOS. We are retired people and that added to our trip costs in a significant (for us) way. JetBlue was great however these attendants seem to be employed by the airport and I was disappointed in the attitude.

flyingfran

On my most recent trip I encountered similar expectations for tips that I felt were too high. Upon landing in Istanbul, my wheelchair pusher moved me through immigration and out to the curb in about 15 minutes. He demanded $30, which I refused to pay.

On our return trip we had two plane changes and required a total of four pushers from departure to arrival city. Normally I tip $4 to $5 for a simple transfer from one gate to another. If someone is particularly helpful moving through security I add a couple of dollars. On a couple of occasions I have tipped $10 for service that was extraordinary, involving help with luggage or any task that was longer than 10 to 15 minutes.

I carefully watched the response of my pushers on our return flight. The pusher in Istanbul was employed by Delta and refused any tip even though he was with me off and on for about 20 minutes. He was completely adamant and would not accept any money. Of the remaining, I would say that two of the three were very unhappy with my $5 tip. None of these four pushers were of any help in collecting luggage to go through customs, or in helping retrieve luggage at our final destination.

This is my reasoning. If you spend less than 15 minutes pushing my wheelchair, and you move four passengers per hour, at $5/passenger, you have earned $20. I think $20/hour, plus whatever they are being payed by the airline terminal, is at least $27/hour. That is $5/hour more than the new school teacher of my grandson's kindergarten class makes.

I do not want to be cheap, but we are also retired, and it is expensive to pay $40 for every trip we take. Pushing a wheel chair is a low skill, entry level position in the work force. I do not think it is a $27/hour type of position, but I am now tipping a minimum of $5. So what is a fair tip?

Adelaide_Matthew

I couldn't agree more, flyingfran - your tipping calculus seems spot on to me (although of course there would be plenty of down-time between pushing jobs and travelling time getting from one job to the next).

As always, with varying service will come varying tips: a pusher who is friendly, helpful and good at pushing (doesn't run feet into walls and doors) could expect more than a surly, late-arriving, foot-mutilating one. For the latter, the $5 tip really feels overgenerous, although I don't imagine it is desirable to go lower than that.

(As I noted earlier, however, I'd never realised the need to tip before, so to my shame have never tipped a pusher yet - but I will next time my family is in the US.)

flyingfran

Yes. I do realize that my evaluation of a "fair" tip is based upon the foundation that a pusher would have to move immediately from pushing one passenger to the next disabled passenger. However, only once in the last ten years have I had a pusher who was readily available to me.

On all but that one occasion, I am always forced to wait for a wheelchair pusher to come. This suggests to me that they do not have lots of downtime where they sit around in a circle sharing horror stories of their previous passenger. In fact, I think that they can stay fairly busy meeting the needs of disabled passengers if that is their objective.

Once, when our arriving flight was very late, and DL was holding our departing flight for us to make the connection there was a wheelchair waiting right outside the door of the plane. We were ushered to the front of the plane ahead of all the other passengers to make our connection as quickly as possible. Of course, I should also note that the person who pushed my wheelchair that day was not a contracted employee of the airport, but actually a DL gate agent who wanted to make sure we arrived at our departing plane as quickly as possible. He would not accept any tip.

JDiver

Good day!

I think taking a chair would be an excellent way of assuring you have a chair when and where you need it. A ruggedized chair would probably be best, but far be it from me to butt in with recommendations without having a clue about which type of chair you feel best using.

I might also contact the liveaboard captain or company and make advance arrangements for storage on land and recovery when you return, or even (depending on the boat, but some like Excel have lots of space) ask if it can be stored onboard.

And I'm glad the liveaboards seem to be able to provide good service to you - I've dived with a para dive buddy who uses webbed gloves and has dived the world extensively, and though he's an awesome diver, not every dive outfit seems to know how to follow his instructions (and some of our fellow divers embarrass me with their stereotyped perceptions of his diving abilities, at least before everyone gets in the water.)

If you ever make it to Cozumel in Mexico, Aldora Divers does a great job (that's where I met my dive friend above) and will go the extra mile for even land transport. So nice to be neutrally buoyant and drift with the currents and the denizens of the deep! Good diving to you!

zoey13

I am a wheelchair pusher at a major US airport. This is a 2nd job & I took it to make ends meet. I am actually shocked to read the comments about pushers. How you "calculate' how much we make an hour by how many chairs we get per day/hour. And how you justify not tipping.

I work arrivals in the international terminal. That means that I am standing on the jet bridge w/ a wheelchair when the aircraft arrives. The pushers are sent to the gate 1 hour before the arrival of the plane. I take the passenger through immigration & if their US Customs form is not filled out, I have to do it. And if their I-94 is not filled out, I must fill it out for them. Very difficult, if they do not speak english. And that takes time. Then we stand in the wheelchair line. Once through immigration we go & collect the baggage. FYI: It is not our job to lift bags. And I will only do it if my passenger is traveling alone. If they are traveling with someone able bodied - that person should be lifting the bags. Next stop Customs. If the bags need to be x-rayed that takes more time. Most of my passenger have a connecting flight in another terminal. We stand in line to drop the bags w/ the airline. Very few are locals, but if they are, I stay with them until I get them to their transportation. Connections require me to get them on the very crowded airport transit system. Through security - which is it's own little slice of hell. But even more horrific for the disabled. Then to the correct gate. This does not cover bathroom stops, or food & beverage stops. I then inform the gate agent of my passenger & ask that they please keep them updated on the status of the flight. All while being chatty & friendly. I must return to the international terminal & do it all over again. I am happy to do all of this, I meet amazing people from all over the world. I enjoy helping them. But this is not volunteer work. I am doing this to survive. On average I have spent 1 - 2 hours with a passenger, plus the hour I sat waiting for the plane. Can you honestly say that all I have done is only worth $5.00 or less! (Often nothing)

Here are some cold hard facts: When I started I was making $7.75 an hour. My company deducted a $1.25 an hour for tips. When minimum wage went to $8.00 guess what...they took a $1.50 an hour out for tips. We are making $6.50 an hour. Even with tips, I rarely make over minimum wage. I work 8 - 9 hour days with no breaks or lunch. I have complained to my boss about the working conditions & been told if you don't like it you can quit. Because they have hundreds of applications. I will quit, as soon as I can find another job. I have never worked so hard, for so little, in all my life. I have actually come home & cried over my day.

Katja

Zoey13, welcome to FlyerTalk. Thank you for providing some insight into your job, and how what you do intersects with what we experience as disabled travelers.

I think the heart of the question is not whether you deserve more than $5.00/hour, but who should be paying you. And if equal access is the goal, expecting passengers to pay you is not achieving that goal.

oldpenny16

Some people do tip a great deal more, but it is often the foreign visitors who have no US money and also no tradition of tipping in their home country who do not tip.

Frankly I agree that the salary of the person doing the pushing and helping should be a great deal higher and tips forgotten about, but that is an issue I can't solve. There is a thread on the Women Traveler topic started by a woman from Norway who is confused and uncertain about tipping in the US. Might be worth reading.

DeafFlyer

zoey13,

We appreciate what you do. We want you to get paid what the job is worth. The problem is: I can't pay your salary. The airport, or airlines, should be paying your salary, and they should pay you much, much more than they do. I will fight for that if there is a way that I can. Those with disabilities who do not want to pay tips is not because they're cheap (well some at least), but because they have no money to spend. Don't take it out on us.