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PRM [Passenger with Reduced Mobility] in an aisle seat [4U]

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Old Aug 27, 17, 4:46 pm
  #1
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PRM [Passenger with Reduced Mobility] in an aisle seat [4U]

I'm a very frequent flyer with many different airlines all over the world, but I have difficulties walking long distances and struggle a little with steps, hence I request and receive assistance when passing through airports.
I was in transit in a European country and had an allocated seat in the front of the plane 3D. When I got on board I was told I can't sit there as I'm a PRN and may not sit in an aisle seat, so I must go back to row 9A, a window seat. I said I refused to be discriminated and want to sit in my allocated seat and for my pains I was thrown off the plane!
Ground staff would not assist me with accommodation or with an onward booking either!
I contacted the airline and they said that it was their safety policy that a PRN may not sit in an aisle seat, based on the aviation regulation that a PRN may not sit in a seat that will block or hinder the staff or other passengers during emergency evacuation.
I checked the airlines published 'conditions of carriage' and it states that PRN may not sit by an emergency exit but no mention of an aisle seat. They are now claiming that their regulation states 'an emergency row' which they interpret to mean the aisle seats throughout the plane, and because I said that I refused to comply and change to a window seat that had no choice but to off-load me from the plane.
Has anyone come across this form of discrimination? Who can I turn to for assistance with this case?
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Old Aug 28, 17, 1:26 am
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What is a PRN? For a slightly more meaningful reply, you should name the airline.
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Old Aug 28, 17, 7:24 am
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Originally Posted by mevaker View Post
Who can I turn to for assistance with this case?
That would likely hinge on the airline and the country at issue, neither of which you have identified.
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Old Aug 28, 17, 10:51 am
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Welcome to FlyerTalk.

PRN? "Pro re nata" s the only meaning that pops up in my brain, and I'm sure that's not your intent, and you don't appear to be traveling to Pristina. Even searching for it, such as here, I'm still clueless. But if the country of origin has laws or an organisation advocating for people with disabilities, I'd suggest contacting them, as this sounds related.

Please help us help you by providing some more detail and less abbreviation.

Thanks!

Last edited by JDiver; Aug 28, 17 at 10:57 am
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Old Aug 28, 17, 12:39 pm
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If the thread & post title (using "PRM") is correct but the post text (using "PRN") is in error, then I'm guessing in context "PRM" means "person with reduced mobility".

But yes, more details and fewer abbreviations would help for sure. Advice would be specific to the relevant jurisdiction which hasn't been provided.
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Old Aug 28, 17, 1:07 pm
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Pro re nata is actually a common expression in a medical context and, slightly less, in a corporate context. It is to do with the concept of 'when/if necessary'. I'm not sure how it applies here.
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Old Aug 29, 17, 4:54 am
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How is this any more discriminatory than telling a blind person they're not allowed to drive?

Not sure what airline this was, but it sounds like they tried to do the right thing... even if the corporate policy stated something different (which can't be confirmed with the information provided).
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Old Aug 30, 17, 3:30 pm
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Sorry. This is my first post. Also forgive my typing error and the use of abbreviations.
PRM = Passenger with Reduced Mobility
The airline in question is Germanwings. I was a transit passenger from Lipzig in Germany via Cologne to Venice and on the Cologne to Venice section was allocated seat 3D but the crew wanted to relocated me to 9A stating that anyone that requires assistance is not allowed to sit in an aisle seat!
As I mentioned in my previous post, I argued that it was discriminatory and have since discovered that the supposed rule is not mentioned in their conditions of carriage. I stress that I am not disabled just a passenger with some restricted mobility that relates most specifically to walking long distance. This was clearly stated in the original booking too.
It is not in anyway similar to not allowing a blind person to drive. The only stipulations in the conditions of carriage for the particular airline match those in most other airlines, that people with disabilities that affect their mobility may not sit by the emergency exit or by the exit row.
I would add that I fly very frequently indeed, mostly with UK based airlines but also with other airlines and also airlines in China and other countries outside the UK and practically always sit in an aisle seat. I have had a few rare occasions when travelling (with one of the so-called cheap airlines) that I was told that their system would not allocate an aisle seat for a disabled passenger, but when I made the point that I was not disabled I was usually given the aisle. In this case the system did allocate the aisle seat and the staff tried to say that it was a mistake.
My question remains; who can I turn to for assistance with this case?

Last edited by mevaker; Aug 30, 17 at 4:20 pm Reason: Addition
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Old Aug 31, 17, 7:34 am
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Presumably EU and/or German law applies. A quick google for the EU came up with this which may be a start for your research:

http://www.reducedmobility.eu/people...el-rights.html

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/trans.../passengers_en
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Old Aug 31, 17, 2:36 pm
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Originally Posted by mevaker View Post
Sorry. This is my first post. Also forgive my typing error and the use of abbreviations.

PRM = Passenger with Reduced Mobility

The airline in question is Germanwings. I was a transit passenger from Lipzig in Germany via Cologne to Venice and on the Cologne to Venice section was allocated seat 3D but the crew wanted to relocated me to 9A stating that anyone that requires assistance is not allowed to sit in an aisle seat!

As I mentioned in my previous post, I argued that it was discriminatory and have since discovered that the supposed rule is not mentioned in their conditions of carriage. I stress that I am not disabled just a passenger with some restricted mobility that relates most specifically to walking long distance. This was clearly stated in the original booking too.

It is not in anyway similar to not allowing a blind person to drive. The only stipulations in the conditions of carriage for the particular airline match those in most other airlines, that people with disabilities that affect their mobility may not sit by the emergency exit or by the exit row.

I would add that I fly very frequently indeed, mostly with UK based airlines but also with other airlines and also airlines in China and other countries outside the UK and practically always sit in an aisle seat. I have had a few rare occasions when travelling (with one of the so-called cheap airlines) that I was told that their system would not allocate an aisle seat for a disabled passenger, but when I made the point that I was not disabled I was usually given the aisle. In this case the system did allocate the aisle seat and the staff tried to say that it was a mistake.

My question remains; who can I turn to for assistance with this case?
Ah, thank you for the clarification.

The issue then pertains under EU Regulation 1107/2006. It may also be affected by whether GermanWings has filed its own policy with the applicable authority and had it approved, which would then have the effect of making it a regulation for that airline.

If it is regulatory agency imposed or approved GermanWings policy for People with Reduced Mobility to be seated in window or other seats and others where they will not impede others' egress, it seems you were rightfully moved. If this was an arbitrary move from a cabin crew member, regardless of intent, you apparently were not.

The link provided by 84fiero includes a lot of pertinent information and links to the applicable EU enforcement bodies.
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Old Aug 31, 17, 6:27 pm
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@mevaker, welcome to Flyertalk. Thanks for following up with more detail.

We're moving your post to another forum for greater exposure.

~beckoa, co-moderator Information Desk
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Old Aug 31, 17, 8:00 pm
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Originally Posted by JDiver View Post
Ah, thank you for the clarification.

The issue then pertains under EU Regulation 1107/2006. It may also be affected by whether GermanWings has filed its own policy with the applicable authority and had it approved, which would then have the effect of making it a regulation for that airline.

If it is regulatory agency imposed or approved GermanWings policy for People with Reduced Mobility to be seated in window or other seats and others where they will not impede others' egress, it seems you were rightfully moved. If this was an arbitrary move from a cabin crew member, regardless of intent, you apparently were not.

The link provided by 84fiero includes a lot of pertinent information and links to the applicable EU enforcement bodies.
Thank you.
I have looked up EU Regulation 1107/2006 and in Article 4 - Derogations, special conditions and information, section 3 says. An air carrier or its agent shall make publicly available, in accessible formats and in at least the same languages as the information made available to other passengers, the safety rules that it applies to the carriage of disabled persons and persons with reduced mobility, as well as any restrictions on their carriage or on that of mobility equipment due to the size of aircraft.
In response to my request for these regulations, the airline sent me a copy of their conditions of carriage, where they state that a PRM (Passenger of Reduced Mobility) may not be seated by an emergency exit or where they will block access by the staff to emergency equipment or to evacuate the aircraft in an emergency. There is no mention of any restriction to sitting in a window seat only, or against sitting in an aisle seat.
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Old Sep 1, 17, 10:18 am
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This is apparently a new kind of discrimination. It makes no sense to restrict PRMs from sitting in aisle seats. I have not found any section of any access law that states such. I, myself, prefer window seats, but I have never been told I had to sit in a window seat. It was my choice to reserve one.
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Old Sep 1, 17, 2:57 pm
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I have been moved from aisle to window by numerous European carriers, including BA, AF and KL.

That said, I always try to book the window, and wasn't upset by the move, except in one case where I was moved to row 1 window from row 2 aisle. I do not like sitting in the bulkhead, as there is no place to store my bag throughout the flight.
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