flyingfran

Last year flying KLM in and out of AMS we had a dreadful experience with the absence of wheelchair services. My husband was not on some "list" and since he was not there no one could let him ride the little electric cart. He was forced to walk a great distance to the gate of our connecting flight. It took him a very long time, and resulted in a long period of recovery.

People suggested that I needed to be more proactive, and contact KLM directly to make sure we were on the "list". Today I called KLM. The young man said he would sign us up for "Meet and Assist Service", but I needed to understand that this was no guarantee that anyone would actually show up to help us. He said services were allocated based on some type of triage determination as well as available staff and equipment.

In this US when I request wheelchair service I get wheelchair service, and that has been true for all the European airports we have visited except for AMS.

Is it legal for AMS to simply provide a bit of service allocated on some whimsical system? I am already annoyed and the trip is 6 weeks away. I would simply avoid AMS, but there seems to be virtually no way for me to reach my destination without changing planes in AMS.

We have attempted to have our scooters delivered to the door of our arriving plane when flying in Europe, and this has never worked at all well. Last time we came within three minutes of missing our flight because no one knew how to handle the electric scooters.

Any advice for what I can do to obtain some guarantee of assistance?

bankops

You should know better than to cross post.

Continue discussion here

Until mods lock this one.

Manasota

I fly through AMS just this monday. No problem with the wheelchair assistance. They where fantastic. I landed at 5.20am and was met at the door of the aircraft, brought over to the next gate. There the aircraft was boarding on the tarmac, I was brought to an elevator, and downstairs was a van, that brought me over to the aircraft. Absolutely great service ! 2 weeks before same situation. I flew KLM/Delta.

Add "WCHS" to your reservation - call airline to do so. While you are arriving at the airport, ask for the requested service and all is going well. Before you arrive at your destination, ask the crew, to reassure, that you will be met by the assistance with a wheelchair.

Have a great trip ...

Call KLM Cares - they take care of all your needs like seatassignemnt and the wheelchair request in your reservation

DeafFlyer

In this forum (Disability forum) is a sticky with SSR codes. Check it out and make sure that the airline gets it right. They do get it wrong sometimes even after making sure. For KLM, you want this post:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/8232751-post18.html

flyingwheels

First up; meet and assist is NOT the same as certain SSR codes. VERY important! At any and all airport, incl. in the US they do triage, based on codes. AMS is no exception on that. Meet and assist basically comes down to "no absolute need, but kinda would make it more easy/comfy", so one can see they are the first to be dropped at high demand times.


Also KLM has a well....... let me put it this way. I'm Dutch, thus AMS is my home airport. No amount of money would make me fly KLM. They don't give a bleep about special needs. It does not matter if legislation is in place or not (which is in place within the EU), when dealing with a company that has a certain mindset. Not all employees are the same, some are very knowledgable and accomodating, but in general the company set up simply is one that creats a vacuum of lack of customer care, let alone service, when having certain needs.

Also when communicating through an airline, there is an extra party in the line. Remember that game telephone line we played as kids where kid 1 said something very different as kid 10 would say they heard kid 9 tell them? That risk is always there with communication but rises which each added party in the line. At many airports you have no choice, so you must rely on this system. Not so at AMS, you can contact the airport assistance company Axxicom directly yourself. Contact the airline by all means to let them know what they need to know for them to properly help you out and for instance for assistance at the other airports on the itinerary, but for AMS you can make your own direct arrangements.

More info about AMS with needs and how to reach Axxicom; http://www.schiphol.nl/Travellers/At...sabilities.htm

Door delivery of ANY battery operated aids is not the norm at many, if not most EU airports which includes AMS, does not happen. Practice is manual chair (if need be provided and with assistance) to get to connecting flight or to baggage claim. Aid will either be sent right through to connecting flight or eventually show up at a seperate baggage claim. When flying out of AMS any and all battery operated (minus powerassisted manual chair wheels) have to be checked at check in because of the same way they process power operated aids. Unfortunately baggage handlers are pretty clueless in how to deal with these type of aids and you would not even WANT a gate check or delivery. In these hands thats about a 100% guarantee of damage if not totalling. And when connecting, a much higher risk of aid not making it onto the connecting flight. Instead going with the flow of operations is much faster, risk reducing etc.

"Simple" assistance as in getting to and from locations etc. is mostly provided by general staff, of which many are students etc. More "specialized" assistance like for instance boarding by aislechair and/or transferring passenger into seat gets done by staff that tends to be more specialized, having had more training, many with a medical background etc. Huge bonus to these folks; training focusses on communication and previous work experience many have had in other medical fields enforces the individuals believe in the importance of communicating. So there is a lot of focus on not wanting to enforce a "one size fits all" type of assistance, but find out what are the abilities, disabilities, risks and preferences of the passenger. It's a shame, but that is something I find painfully lacking at most other airports. It's been in place for about 8 years or so now and the difference is huge when being one of those of us who have very specific needs. I for instance can only board in 1 way if wanting to stay safe and minimize risk of injury. Some of that could result in needing acute hospital care thus no flying. It's always a fight to get assistance to listen to why and how, not so at AMS. Many times will already have been asked if there are specifics they need to know. It can though mean that those who assisted the passenger to the gate leave, for a second team to show up right before boarding time to provide help with that more specialized boarding. More easy stuff, like being able to walk on and off yourself but needing a chair or ride for longer distance etc. tend to be done a lot by the general pool, so might sometimes be the same people waiting with you or coming back around boarding time again.


Is AMS perfect? Heck no. Is it very doable? Heck yes. Biggest pitfall of AMS? Surviving the baggage handlers with more fragile aids. So when flying with for instance a powerchair, by all means make it as "stupid damage free" as possible. Have back up tools with you. Many issues can easily be solved if having the right tools on you, such an easy things with such great results. Second biggest pitfall? The size of AMS. Many people still underestimate it, but it can huge hikes. Results in a much higher demand for assistance in some shape or form, incl. much higher demand of last minute demand. Thus making it even more important to have the right codes in place. Those on the floor do their utmost best to accomodate each and every passenger. As I've found at most airports. But unfortunately sometimes demand is much higher than supply and you can't clone yourself yet.



For those who it might be of importance; Manasota mentioned being helped onto a flight boarding on the tarmac through a van. That is indeed a possibility, but at times demand is higher than supply for them, so a second option to board is being lifted up the boarding stairs by professionals. As is the situation at most airports that do have these vans, some airports might only have one, others don't have any. If it is of medical importance; be aware of the difference! At AMS it can be worked around, but does take a lot of planning and communicating. Tarmac boarding flights are very specific types of flights. So certain airlines and/or destinations and all from certain gate numbers. So at AMS they are pretty easy to avoid -if a must- by avoiding those specific flights.

DeafFlyer

I see that maybe I misunderstood what happened to you there. I assumed that someone had mixed up what you needed because they had the wrong code. Some of what you described reminded me of my experiences at CPH. Is what happened an EU thing rather than just an AMS or KLM thing? I wonder.

Manasota

Dear flyingwheels , between the lines, I read big frustration and anger....
Of cause, experiences are different. And disabilities are different.

Both sides need communication - and yes, things can go wrong. If it is so, it is not because airlines are careless - itīs only, that agents involved have pretty much the same problem that people in real life : To understand your needs ...
That results to unpleasant situations. Both sides need passions and information. My experience over the years and with 8-12 transatlantic trips annualy plus domestic flights every other week, is that good prearrangements plus friendly info to agents involved usually results in a good expereriences .

flyingwheels

KLM outsources their handling in CPH, and though officially airlines make the policy, practice makes it more realistic to get a bit of a mixed experience of airline and outsourced party. Outsourcing also adds an extra party into the mix that can result in communication issues, being too much of a rule-stickler where klm employees might feel more leeway where felt needed or running into an agent that does not know each and every policy detail of the airline they are handling the flights. Not sure about CPH, but many of the outsource companies do multiple airlines, which can add to agents easily not always knowing each and all assistance code smallest detail for each airline.

Code understanding (imput) can be a bit more challenging in the EU as one will be familiar with in for instance the US, which can result in an easier mix up. One of the reasons I always advice people to know which code(s) the airline they fly uses for their need and clearly communicate said code. Output does tend to be much better, so once right code is communicated to assistance company you are pretty set.

And while we do now have legislation for flying with a mobility disability and airport accessibility in the EU, it still is rather "new" for many locations and companies. Also still not a real big training priority and some other stuff, which can result in a mistake due to lack of knowledge, training or experience. With most being prepared yourself and knowing how and what yourself does tackle most, though. So know codes used, options offered by airline and airport etc (internet has lots of info many times).

I have a feeling culture comes into play. Not unwillingness or anything, but still being less used to those with disabilities flying and lower numbers of them than for instance compared to the US where legislation has been in place for a lot longer, having a culture where not only having that legislation but legally putting a big priority on equal access. It seems to be a much more of a normal in US culture to be aware and accomodate, has a longer history. Not that on a human level we don't value equal access in the EU, but it's a different outlook legally and historically. Which we see in air travel and on other fronts as well. Things can vary a lot per country, some have much more legislation and a history with it as others, but it seems to be weaved into society, businesses and culture differently in general here in the EU than the US for instance. Not all in a negative way, but I do think that when it comes to airtravel in general we in the EU are still in a lower grade class as the US, yet ideally we'ld have them function on a same level. They'll get there, though.



Manasota; frustration? No, in contrary, a big fat ^ for Axxicoms standard outlook. I'm a master communicator of my needs and dont expect to get anywhere proper without given some of my needs are so extraordinary. Standard general way of operations; totally get it. Safety rules; dito. But, communication can only get to the best result when the space needed is being made available by policies. And that is where I do run into the same wall over and over. To keep it safe, I need to board a way that is not the general way for those of us that need an aisle chair. Which I thus communicate. Also I would never dare to expect anything that could be harmfull to those providing assistance, crew, fellow passengers, myself or the aircraft. Or could negatively influence the airlines operations. But, safe boarding does require deviating from "standard procedures" as deemed safe for the general passenger. The deviation makes it safe for me without adding any risk (instead of at best resulting in hospitalisation or worse), but at most airports you will run into a very thick wall that can take too much time and energy to climb. Never mind communicating, never mind making arrangements beforehand with airline and assistance etc. At many airports it's not so much the individual employee as it is policy. Deviating from that "safety" rule then requires getting it cleared and that's where problems will occur. And I can totally understand the individual employee not wanting to risk going against policy and run the risk of being fired etc. It's just one of those bureaucratic things to deal with at many locations, where getting back home at AMS it is a heavenly experience of rules are there for a reason, but if need be and as long as safe for all, those rules can be tweaked to arrange for a safe form of assistance.

Dont get me wrong, I have nothing but applaud for those on the actual floor providing the assistance. The ones that are not willing to help and/or not able to understand needs when told about and work within that I've found to be very very few in between. I've had beyond superb assistance. Assistance workers at different airports worldwide being on the look out for me, making sure they are assigned my slot, keeping track of my travel schedules and proactively advocating for me to get my needs met whether it being at security checks, boarding or whatever. But willingness to help and understanding needs only goes so far. Each and every time that bureaucratic hurdle needs to be taken. Very righfully so that things need to be looked into carefully when it could be a "safety issue" ( used " since it's not so much pure safety as policies based on one general range of options, where other options are equally safe for all, just as time consuming, expensive etc). It is a bit of a shame though that it can end up in a saying no because we-feel-like-it while clearance is in writing, but nobody cares to look it up for long times since it does not fit the standard. I've more than once had manager X refuse, because manager X did not feel like being bothered with difficult passengers, yet manager X has cleared my accomodation weeks prior and even repeated to do so at the beginning of that day, but does not put together that this is that one passenger he/she cleared. Oops. At many locations and flights I no longer have to do all that much with direct thanks to assistance workers going to bat for me, having been there and done that before. It is what it is, it's part of my airtravel and just as useless to get frustrated about as it would be to get all wound up when delays happen.

Axxicom at AMS also has those managers but a different policy results in no need for them to be involved since assistance workers at the level I'm assigned there are trained and cleared to make that decision on the spot if the passengers needs call for it and it is safe for all involved.

flyingfran

My update. I probably called Delta five or six times confirming that my wheelchair need was documented. Then I called KLM to get similar confirmation and seat assignments. We arrived in Amsterdam at 5:00am. We were greeted at the gate by a wheelchair attendant (they prefer the title "Transportation Assistant"). She was bright and personable and wheeled me out of the jetway.

Once in the corridor she pointed to her little golf cart device and told us to have a seat. Then she left us to speak with a colleague. Unfortunately the golf cart was already occupied, and the lady sitting in the front seat informed us that this was "her" cart and we could get our own.

We just waited quietly until this transportation assistant returned. She told the lady sitting in the front seat, and her grand-daughter, occupying all of the rear seat with herself and her carry-on luggage, that they needed to get out of the cart. There was a bit of a scene, with a bit of DYKWIM thrown around. The problem was that she was not on "the list". Even thought the lady was exceptionally unpleasant to both myself and my husband, I had a degree of empathy having been in a similar situation.

Ultimately the lady retained her seat in the front only because my husband and I offered to both sit in the back and hold every piece of everyone's carry-on luggage on our laps. The lady announced that she was not leaving the cart of her own free will, and I believe she meant it. I did not want an even larger scene, and I thought we offered a good resolution. The grand-daughter, however, was not allowed to ride because she absolutely was not on "the list". I did have a bit of empathy with the poor woman even thought she was exceptionally rude from the outset. I understood, that also being from the US, she was unaware of "the list".

We were delivered to the Lounge because we had a 14 hour layover. The transportation assistant told us that someone would be back to pick us up at 7:30pm that evening. At 7:25pm, a young man arrived and delivered us to our gate. In another 15 minutes a young lady arrived and pushed me to the door of the plane.

Everything worked perfectly. Everyone was on time, personable and efficient. Our assistant managed the lady who was not on "the list" in a tactful manner. Now, if our return adventure is as pleasant I might be able to think about AMS with less rage in my heart.

As someone pointed out here, I believe the key is to make sure one is on "the list", and I am trying to appreciate how members of the EU are managing to meet the needs of those of us with disabilities. In the US no one would have challenged the lady in the golf cart. In the US if you ask someone to take you in a wheelchair or a cart it is a violation of the law to refuse them, even if they appear mobile and healthy. There are countless discussions about how people who do not need them request wheelchair assistance so they do not have to take long walks in US airport terminals. Obviously these rants are from people who have never had to depend on wheelchairs, and never have to pas the duty free shops, or the attractive little gift shops on their way to their gate.

I appreciate people who helped me learn a bit more about managing this particular terminal. It appears to me that Delta is going to hub many of it's flights at this airport, and avoiding it will be an expensive decision for us. Hopefully we have figured out how to communicate, and that was exclusively do to your assistance. Thank You!

Manasota

Good to read that things can go right....
There is one big thing about things going wrong .... itīs about communication. As a former airline employee, I exactly know, how easy things can go wrong. Without being just careless. Although, to the passenger, it appears so. Just let them know, what you need. I never have a problem - and when it seems, someone is not aware, tell them .... Non disabled people do not live in our world ...

Well, I obviously have a good standing with my needs, as I have my Service dog with me. So we have automatic attention. But sometimes even in a negative way.... when assistance is meeting me at aircraft, they usually do not know about my dog. Had agents, being extremly scared ... But again, communication helps....

flyingfran

My benefit was learning from the members of this forum just with whom I needed to communicate as well as the specific message that needed to be sent. Without some interpretation I would not have known that "Meet and Greet" was not just a nice phrase for wheelchair assistance, but, in fact, was an indication that help might be available if possible for people who only had marginal needs. Once I understood exactly what I needed to say everything worked exactly like I would expect a well-oiled system to work.

Communication is the key, but you can request a wheelchair on the Delta website every day, and it will not translate to wheelchair service in AMS unless you specifically make that request and put yourself on "the list" things may not work as well. My proof is that the lady who shared our golf cart was not on "the list" and the only reason she received transportation to her gate was because she absolutely refused to leave the cart.

I have never had this issue of varying degrees of ability indicating various levels of assistance. I do not know how many international airports have this system. I have not encountered it in any of the other European countries where we used airline terminals. I am just happy that i "think" we have now mastered this system.