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32767a Mar 23, 2013 1:09 am

Disabled Passengers
 
So the other day, I watched this happen to a companion who was traveling on the same flight as I was:

My friend was seated in 1a on a CRJ 200.

A visually impaired lady with a seeing eye dog was on the flight with us.

She boarded early, at the "need extra time" window.

She took 1a and had the dog on the floor at the front of the bulkhead. The dog occupied most of the leg area in front of 1a and 1b. (large-ish golden retriever)

When my friend got on the plane, she was rather rude and told him "I need this seat, my dog doesn't fit anywhere else, You'll have to sit in my seat instead."

Now, before anyone gets spun up, I'm not trying to make this a DYKWIA moment. There was extra space on the flight and my friend was able to move to another seat. No Big Deal. Having her in the first row is reasonable in my mind, as row 1 is really the only reasonable place to have a dog that size on the CRJ200.

The issue I have is that the disabled pax appears to have booked a ticket in a row other than 1 and then just took the seat on her own initiative. Delta appeared to have no advance knowledge she was bringing a dog on the plane or needed special accommodation.

If the flight was full, that behavior would seem to create a problem, as the dog and a pax in 1b would not fit together. And this is indeed what happened when she was on our return flight several days later. The pax in 1b had to squeeze into the space with the dog and I'm not sure it was really 'safe' for them to both be there.. The FA didn't seem to know what to do and was no help.

Shouldn't both 1a and 1b have been booked for the disabled passenger ahead of time, so there was no surprise at the gate? Anyone know the proper policy when someone disabled shows up at the gate with no warning? Does someone get IDB-ed to make room?

Along the same lines, I assume the disabled pax would get priority seating.. Why allow them to book a seat other than the bulkhead and create a situation where another passenger is in the awkward place of needing a seat to get home when Delta needs the seat to serve the disabled passenger?

All in all it worked out, but it could have put my friend or some other pax in the unfortunate position of suddenly having to give up their seat (back home) for a disabled pax, when delta could have managed the seating assignments ahead of time and avoided the whole situation.

aviatorzz Mar 23, 2013 4:22 am

Most folks who need help/have a special seating request, do so in advance.

Irops also happen, which takes away their original seating from their original flights if they mis-connect.

And if the flight was full, 1B would have been occupied, just uncomfortable for the dog.

Often1 Mar 23, 2013 5:58 am

Since this is third-hand, we'll never know the details. But, the fact is that if what is related is accurate and complete, there should not have been an encounter between the two pax. Rather, the GA or the crew should have rearranged the seating to acommodate the disabled pax, if possible.

What we don't know is whether the disabled pax alerted the carrier to her specific need at the time of booking. The need here is not after all related to her disability, but rather to the size of the dog.

We also don't know if the disabled pax was rerouted in IRROPS or what else might have ocurred. And, we don't know whether any changes were made face-to-face, in which case the CSR making the change would have seen the size of the dog.

If it was reasonably possible to move the non-disabled pax to acommodate the disabled pax's needs, that was fine, but a decision to be made by the carrier, not unilaterally by any pax. The real risk here is that a sold out aircraft, the extra seat would have been needed for some pax and the disabled pax would not have been acommodated as the carrier's sole duty is to undertake "reasonable" measures.

32767a Mar 23, 2013 7:25 am


Originally Posted by aviatorzz (Post 20468056)
Most folks who need help/have a special seating request, do so in advance.

Irops also happen, which takes away their original seating from their original flights if they mis-connect.

And if the flight was full, 1B would have been occupied, just uncomfortable for the dog.

I observed the whole thing from 3c. Based on the conversations and knowing the airports/flights involved. I'm pretty convinced she was on her scheduled flight. Also, I find it unlikely that IRROPs would put her on both our outbound and return flights.

On the return flight, which was full, the pax in 1b was small ish and their legs barely fit with the dog. a 6'2 person would not have been able to fit there with the dog.

32767a Mar 23, 2013 7:34 am


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 20468275)
Since this is third-hand, we'll never know the details. But, the fact is that if what is related is accurate and complete, there should not have been an encounter between the two pax. Rather, the GA or the crew should have rearranged the seating to acommodate the disabled pax, if possible.

What we don't know is whether the disabled pax alerted the carrier to her specific need at the time of booking. The need here is not after all related to her disability, but rather to the size of the dog.

We also don't know if the disabled pax was rerouted in IRROPS or what else might have ocurred. And, we don't know whether any changes were made face-to-face, in which case the CSR making the change would have seen the size of the dog.

If it was reasonably possible to move the non-disabled pax to acommodate the disabled pax's needs, that was fine, but a decision to be made by the carrier, not unilaterally by any pax. The real risk here is that a sold out aircraft, the extra seat would have been needed for some pax and the disabled pax would not have been acommodated as the carrier's sole duty is to undertake "reasonable" measures.

The outbound airport is a small regional airport. I know some of the DGS people there. It was not IRROPs.
She may have had to last minute reschedule her flight on the phone or something, but she made no attempt to let the GA know she was on the flight.

As I said before, the outbound flight was not full and it was no big deal to move around, but on the return, the flight was full and 1b was occupied.

Oh well.. Kobayashi Maru..

rbwpi Mar 23, 2013 7:48 am

Taking someone else's seat on your own initiative is unacceptable under any circumstance.

HongKonger Mar 23, 2013 9:21 am


Originally Posted by rbwpi (Post 20468576)
Taking someone else's seat on your own initiative is unacceptable under any circumstance.

THIS

Bowgie Mar 23, 2013 11:39 am


Originally Posted by rbwpi (Post 20468576)
Taking someone else's seat on your own initiative is unacceptable under any circumstance.

Agree. On a CRJ-200 (where all the seats are bad), I would have just stood in the isle until the FA told me, "It's OK to switch".

This does not sound like a Person of Size issue; the dog fits as long as it's on the floor of a bulkhead seat. I like dogs. If the dog's body expends onto the floor in front of my seat, I just got myself a warm furry foot-rest!

northwest_buckeye Mar 23, 2013 11:52 am

Just because someone has a disability doesn't mean they are unable to be a d*ck like anyone else. It's just politically incorrect to call them on it in a public place. And at the end of the day, there really are no winners when it comes to seat assignments on a CRJ-200.

DelrayChris Mar 23, 2013 12:09 pm

Same thing happened to me on a UA flight in paid F. I am tall and intentionally do not take the bulkhead seat.

I board an individual and their travel companion take both my seat and the seat next to me.

The FA instructed us to take the bulkhead seats. When I looked back at my seat, the individual was patting their knee and said, "Bad knee. I can't sit in the bulkhead."

The individual was very sick and, IMHO, should not have been flying on a commercial plane. Air ambulance comes to mind.

While I sympathized with the individual, I asked myself why the individual did not book the correct seat in F. Oh well..

There are folks that book and seat and then expect others to accommodate them, as is the case in the above story.

xolinlevh Mar 23, 2013 12:28 pm


Originally Posted by rbwpi (Post 20468576)
Taking someone else's seat on your own initiative is unacceptable under any circumstance.

+1, your friend isnt the DYKWIA in this, its the disabled woman. As she clearly knew that she needed extra space for her dog she should have made arrangements beforehand.

aviatorzz Mar 23, 2013 12:31 pm


Originally Posted by DelrayChris (Post 20469721)
Same thing happened to me on a UA flight in paid F. I am tall and intentionally do not take the bulkhead seat.

I board an individual and their travel companion take both my seat and the seat next to me.

The FA instructed us to take the bulkhead seats. When I looked back at my seat, the individual was patting their knee and said, "Bad knee. I can't sit in the bulkhead."

The individual was very sick and, IMHO, should not have been flying on a commercial plane. Air ambulance comes to mind.

While I sympathized with the individual, I asked myself why the individual did not book the correct seat in F. Oh well..

There are folks that book and seat and then expect others to accommodate them, as is the case in the above story.

Huh??

If anything, they should be required to take the bulkhead so no one can recline into them?

mainbill Mar 23, 2013 1:25 pm

I think there are two issues to this story.
First is the self entitlement of the blind lady, which I don't like anyone being selfish at the expense of others.
But the second issue is about compassion.
A physically healthy guy would be miserable for a couple of hours, but this blind lady has a lifetime of misery.
So in this situation, maybe it's just best to be compassionate about it.

Crazyhotelguy Mar 23, 2013 1:34 pm

That sucks.

I have had to share a bulkhead with a large service animal on a US flight.....

BobH Mar 23, 2013 1:38 pm

The OP shows his/her bias by the title of this thread -- people with service dogs are *not* disabled, they're only handicaped and in this case able to travel, so have been able to over come all of that.

Also, unless he/she had to change seats, how can he/she have the basis of a complaint!

Bob H


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